Shawn Stringham (00:02.379)

Chad, it's great to see you. Thank you for being on the Find Your Challenge podcast. let's just say I'm just incredibly honored that you take a few minutes out of your afternoon to talk about a great shared experience that we had a couple of weeks ago. Thanks. Welcome. How are you,

Chad Dunford (00:18.69)

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, you and I have a lot of shared experiences. This is one of the many, one of the many. No, I'm grateful. Yeah, thank you very much.

Shawn Stringham (00:21.833)

We do have a lot of sharing experiences, not in a weird way.

Shawn Stringham (00:30.091)

So we're, one of the things I'm sitting here thinking about, this is maybe going to be sound strange talking about, was like sitting here talking, thinking about, you know, sitting in a hot tub with you and 20 other dudes at 11 o'clock at night, talking about real things, right? And I just wanted to compliment you. You built something incredible a couple of weekends ago and we all went down to Moab. Let's.

Let's start with this simple question. Like what was it in your mind that said like, Hey, I'm going to organize a massive trip to go off-roading in Moab.

Chad Dunford (01:05.72)

Sure. Well, not to get too much into, you know, too distant of history, but you know, I think something like this has just kind of always been sitting in my brain. I think some of the real prominent things that stand out to me was I was in architecture school, gosh, over 20 years now, and I had to read this book as part of the curriculum called, I think it was called The Not So Small House.

And it was talking about the demographics of housing and families and all that kind of stuff. And it talked about how families are basically separating. And they're getting their own rooms, they're getting their own TVs, they're getting, in some cases, their own kitchenettes and stuff in their own homes. And it just occurred to me as the architect, mean, the architect wasn't giving any kind of social commentary. It was just the nature of architecture. And it struck me as how families are kind of just

naturally being drawn apart, even in the buildings we live in. And I just started thinking about families and, my family is super important to me. I grew up in a family that just kind of was kind of challenged. And I think I picked up a hobby of watching families that succeeded and families that succeed spend time together. And I realized that, you know, through personal experiences with my dad and through different leadership experiences, I just realized that

you know, there was a, there was a challenge there, especially in men in men's lives. know, you, you and I, we have a lot of daughters and I think that kind of like between us. And I think those there, it's easier to be sensitive about some of those challenges. You know, we, as a, as a family, we read that book, girls on the edge. And there's a companion book to that called boys adrift. And it just really illustrates the challenges that.

Shawn Stringham (02:38.879)

Yeah, we have a lot of daughters.

Chad Dunford (02:58.37)

boys have and consequently men have in socializing. And it really just occurred to me a couple of years ago, like, hey, I moved away from one of my favorite things in Moab and I'm around all these people, all these men with, with Jeeps and all kinds of, you know, wilderness and manly ambitions. And this is something that I can connect to. And this is a great excuse to connect other people to. And so it started small. started with three people.

and came to what we are today.

Shawn Stringham (03:30.753)

This year is year number four, four years. So I've been there for the two of the four. That's fantastic. And do you, and, and part of it is like, just to share, like between the two of us, have 10 kids and an 80 % girl situation, right? And you're a, you're a hundred percent girl and I'm only, what is that? 60 % girl. But how, how, how does that play into it in terms of your?

Chad Dunford (03:33.528)

Four. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (03:46.894)

It's correct. That's correct.

Shawn Stringham (03:59.125)

You're wanting to connect with men, right? Wanting to have that. that like, and you have done, you, one of my heroes of like being able to engage your family, have them do cool, fun things. Like that is not a problem in the Dunford house, but how does that, how does that, how do those things come together?

Chad Dunford (04:13.486)

Right.

Chad Dunford (04:18.008)

You know, I would, I initially would have, if I were early on in my marriage, I would say, it's, to do manly things, right? Cause I'm surrounded by women, but I, I don't, I don't, as they've aged and as I've aged, I realized I don't have those kinds of draws. Like I just love being around people. And I think there's things that I'm naturally inclined towards. And so, you know, the off-roading, the back country, the climbing, the repelling, you know,

All the things that we do and those adventures that we do are just an offshoot of what we do, you know? And luckily, you know, my two daughters that are at college just got hired at Beaver Mountain today. I mean, right? know, so like, yeah. So it's things that we do and as a family, and this is just an extension of that. think.

Shawn Stringham (04:50.582)

Right, yeah.

Shawn Stringham (04:57.921)

That's incredible. You need a V. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (05:08.588)

And I think this is kind of plays into, don't want to get into this too early, but this plays into what we talked about on the trip of, you know, I think all men, all people, all individuals have talents. think they have, I think they come to this life with a bag of experience and it's kind of imperative on each of us to find out what's in that bag and to share the better parts of ourselves. I hope that if anything that comes out of this, I hope that that's what people are looking for.

Shawn Stringham (05:38.289)

As an organizer of the trip, right? Like there is a, there's probably a decision-making process of who you invite, and their individual responses. know my response, has always been like, yes, immediately. I want to be the first person to make sure that I get my RSVP in. I get to go. but we made a comment, I think in the trip at one point that said like, some people are like that and some people are like,

you're going, you were just told them to go, right? and just talk a little bit about that experience of like the invitation and the responses, cause it's probably pretty wide range between with 20 different guys going. Like what's the total, what is it? 23? Is that the number I'm trying to remember what the final count.

Chad Dunford (06:07.744)

Right. Right. Right.

Chad Dunford (06:22.542)

23 ended up being, I think, 21 individuals, including me.

Shawn Stringham (06:25.761)

21 and yeah, right. So like what were some of the responses? What were some of the things that you had to overcome to get those all those guys there?

Chad Dunford (06:34.562)

Yeah, you know, it's really interesting when it first started, of course, it's your friends that you're the tightest with, know, the friends that you've had these conversations like you and I have talked about, you know, back country driving our whole friendship. And so you know that there's a certain commonality there that you share with people with others like guilt is a definite motivator. And yeah, for most men. And the thing that's really funny about it is,

Shawn Stringham (06:46.677)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (06:57.825)

For most men. For most men. We can call that.

Chad Dunford (07:04.994)

I've kind of matured in this whole thing because, I guess surprisingly, so this has been a journey for me too where like it just started out, you I can bring all of my friends and all of your friends kind of turns out to be, you know, in my case, I don't know, easily, you know, 10, 12 people that I can pull out of a hat. Well, you know, with this many people, you're kind of going to the next level of friendships. And in this group, you know, we had

two, well, no, three sons. And we had some extra people there. We had a brother there. And I think what it turns into is something that kind of grows out of people's appreciation for what it is. And I think the thing that I've learned is to ask myself, what do I want out of it? Because now it's not just Chad and his closest buddies.

It's now Chad and something else. And I kind of accidentally turned myself into a leader, right? I didn't necessarily seek out to do that. It was more of a shared experience. now, you know, definitely this trip was definitely, you know, I realized having my son-in-law there for our first trip together, I realized that I kind of neglected him, you know, because I was a trip leader, right? And so like, that's something I've got to evaluate going forward and how to have that trip.

Shawn Stringham (08:07.125)

Yeah.

Chad Dunford (08:31.874)

define those moments and those memories in a way that's lasting and that is passionate for me. Because the last thing I want to do is turn this into a job, right?

Shawn Stringham (08:40.853)

Right. Yeah. What, what do you want out of it? You, you set yourself up for that one, right? Like you, you, you, you gave yourself a softball on that. Like how, and I guess how do you, what do you want out of it? the follow-up maybe question that I'll ask before you answer is maybe there is another guy out there that's listening said, like, that would be really fun. Right. Like what, how, how do I go about conceptualizing like

Chad Dunford (08:45.384)

wow, yeah, wow.

Shawn Stringham (09:06.355)

Organizing maybe it's four, maybe it's six, maybe it's 10, maybe it's 20 guys, right? Like just kind of give them some of your hot tips from having done this for four years of how to make this approachable for the average dude out there.

Chad Dunford (09:22.68)

Sure. I think the biggest thing for me is doing a lot of those decisions in advance. And I think for most men, we live to the limit, right? We live scheduled. Not a lot of us have a lot of free time and that free time is even is scheduled, right? And for someone who has limited time off too, I'm super sensitive to that. So I would say, you know, eliminate a lot of the ambiguity. And so that's why we

You know, one of those trails is always gonna be the same. The second trail is gonna be something a little bit spicier, know, a little bit something that we can adapt to the crowd a little bit. But also like where we eat, where we stay, those decisions are just made because they're known to me and they take out the question, right? They take out the risk, I guess. Like the hotel we stayed at, not the nicest place, right? I mean, but certainly not a clean, convenient.

Shawn Stringham (10:21.173)

fine. Yeah, it's fantastic. And back to a bunch of guys stacked in a hotel room, which is makes

Chad Dunford (10:22.062)

easy and you know it wasn't

Yeah, right. And it just, it kind of, it kind of recreates kind of that, that scouting, you know, guys in a tent, you know, at summer camp feeling that I love, right? That's something I have in my, in my history that I'm passionate about. But, you know, and it just kind of recreates that as an adult. And so yeah, just trying to get the decisions there, really, really trying to keep it simple. I mean, really, when we go to the grocery store, we go on a trail.

Shawn Stringham (10:36.287)

Right. Right.

Chad Dunford (10:56.014)

and we go to dinner and then everything else in the day is open. And so I try to keep it just as simple as possible. Cause we could, mean, in our last day when we were leaving, you we could have rigged that, we could have rigged that arch and done a swing. Like we could have climbed that, it wouldn't have been a problem. We had all the gear there, but it just seemed like it took away from the experience. And I don't think that we lost anything by not doing it. So, you know,

Shawn Stringham (11:10.219)

Yeah, right.

Shawn Stringham (11:20.117)

Right. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (11:22.926)

You can always do more, right? You can always cram it with high adventure. You can always cram it with, you know, risk and thrill and memory. But I don't think that it makes those feelings better. You know, I think it might be a net negative rather than a net positive.

Shawn Stringham (11:38.879)

Right. And I think the key principle, especially for a bunch of dudes is like, just keep it simple, right? Like let it, let it fill in. Is there, is there a time, leading up to the event or during the event where you clenched a little bit and like, this is, this is, this is not going to work. This is, this is a bad idea, right? Like is, is do it as, as the trip leader, as, as the guy, right.

Chad Dunford (11:44.14)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (12:00.481)

Right.

Right.

Shawn Stringham (12:09.057)

Any like, experiences there?

Chad Dunford (12:14.722)

Yeah, so last year was one of the ones, well, in a very risky environment, right? I mean, this is innately a very risky situation.

Shawn Stringham (12:25.631)

Right. And, and the follow-up in there is like, why, why off-roading? Why jeeping? Right. As opposed to like golf or fishing or some sort of art tour, right? Like what, like go, but go ahead.

Chad Dunford (12:31.479)

Right.

Right. Well, part of it too is I don't want to bring any sexism into this, so I want to be really careful with it, but it is manly, right? There is a certain feeling of adrenaline and a fulfillment from that comes from that dopamine dump. And my kids, my daughters and my wife, they're great off-road drivers. They've shared that experience with us.

I think the things that really kind of keep me up at night is just the realities of the risk. And I think when you go with like back to that analogy of like your 12 buddies or your five buddies, like that risk is mitigated by the relationship, right? This trip we had people that I didn't know, right? We had people that I had met for the first time when they showed up to the first morning. And so because driving...

Shawn Stringham (13:20.971)

Right.

Chad Dunford (13:29.976)

comes naturally to me and because I've done it so much over so many years, like I have an understanding and even, I guess, even to an extent, some professional training, but I have an understanding of how to mitigate and how to manage those risks. For me, the scary part is somebody that steps up to like unfins and things on that last wall. That wall scares me because it has a left-hand drift that if a person doesn't understand the kinetics of it, they're in the ditch, right?

Shawn Stringham (13:49.781)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (13:59.662)

they're rolled over. And so for me, it's both providing the opportunity and the exposure to that risk, but then controlling it in a way, okay, set up here, get set up, you know, angle. you kind of try and get them oriented towards what some of the risks are. And so yeah, for definitely the time against the risk is super spooky. And then the other thing that was actually super stressful was putting people in rooms together, right? Because that's not

That's part of it that's super out of the norm for men. Like we isolate, right? Like even we have our own cars and we have our own offices and we have our things. And putting a bunch of guys in a room together for some is a challenging thing. So.

Shawn Stringham (14:32.053)

Right. Right.

Shawn Stringham (14:37.409)

All right.

Shawn Stringham (14:45.173)

Right, right. What made it work? What are the best things? We'll dig a little bit as we go into this, set up the positive thing. What's the best energy moment or why do you love it?

Chad Dunford (14:59.97)

Yeah, that's easy for me. So they've done studies of people that go on vacation and they discovered that the planning and the lead up and the anticipation and then the after trip and the memories and the photographs and the videos, those are far more mentally and emotionally rewarding than the trip itself. Even the trip, even though you're on the beach or you're on the mountain or you're out in the cool air,

Shawn Stringham (15:07.894)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Dunford (15:29.71)

It's the reliving of those moments that create the pleasure center of that. And one of the things, as I've done a lot of back country stuff, is I always make a trip video pretty soon afterwards because it hits on that, right? You feed on it. so for me, like providing a trip.

that men would not naturally do on their own. I've had, I mean, we've been off the trip now, what is it, three weeks almost? I've been emotional with some of the feedback that I've gotten from some people. For some people, it's been life-changing. mean, last year, one of the guys that came going through a really hard life experience, he texts me on the drive out of town. said, this trip may have saved my life, you know?

And I don't take those compliments lightly. mean, they're not so much about me as much as exposing people to something that you can do, right? I think that, you know, we were amazing creatures and, you know, back to that whole bag of talents and abilities, like, I think we come, even people who are broken, even people who have challenges and...

Shawn Stringham (16:34.305)

But right.

Chad Dunford (16:50.004)

and health problems, all those types of things, they have something to give. I think that that's, this is a vehicle to be able to express those and be able to expose those to rigor and excitement. And I think, I think it's just a good thing. It's been a good thing. feels, go ahead. It just, feels rewarding. really does. It just feels rewarding top to bottom when you, you know,

Shawn Stringham (17:06.89)

Yeah. It's, it's go ahead. Finish your sentence.

Chad Dunford (17:20.014)

There's a Shakespeare quote. It's kind of in a negative context, I kind of live, it's one of the pillars I live by, but it's taken from, I'll just use, the name is Thais. And it says, what win I when I gain the thing I seek? And he's using it as negative connotation because he's about to do something horrendous, but I think that that's something that I've thought about as I kind of extrapolate life's experiences. What do I win?

Like what do I gain? And I think the memories and the connections and the life experience and the depth of this experience is just, it's immeasurable really at this point. Four years in, the experience is almost more addicting than the off-roading. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (18:05.557)

Yeah, for sure. One of the things that's been great, you had mentioned sons. I took my two sons with two of the 20 % of our children. And I think, you know, I've watched them, I've seen how they have interacted. And you had said the photos and the experiences are the thing that's the most important. And the other day I was looking at my wall and I had recently just printed some eight by tens of

Chad Dunford (18:14.754)

you

Shawn Stringham (18:34.493)

lots of different kind of cool things. And I was looking up and most of those photos of me and my sons were from those trips. Like, and it was like, that was amazing to me. Right. And, and I looked at Peter, my youngest son, and Jonas, my oldest son, and you know, the ability to see, like to have them build confidence from last year to this year, right. To watch Peter to kind of define himself like,

Chad Dunford (18:43.692)

Wow. Wow.

Shawn Stringham (19:01.749)

Hey, I'm wearing a Jeep t-shirt, right? Like you kind of, as a 16 year old, like that's really, really important to him. And to see those two guys bond together is really important as well. that's an amazing thing. And like to have him talk about like, and to have the confidence for both of them this year to drive, right? Like that was a really, really proud dad moment that you all facilitate. So thanks.

Chad Dunford (19:11.822)

Sure. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (19:21.271)

Yeah.

Chad Dunford (19:26.414)

For sure. For sure. Awesome. Well, I'm so glad. I love those guys. I love getting to know them personally. I've known them their whole lives, and it's nice to get to know them as adults. I like that.

Shawn Stringham (19:35.275)

Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (19:43.243)

Pausing? Okay, pausing. Good job. That was fun. You're hearing okay. You're seeing okay. I'm good. I love it. And your picture looks like, at least on here, your picture looks way better than mine with all that natural light and the good stuff happened back there. It's really good.

Chad Dunford (19:46.414)

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, is he getting background noise at all? Okay.

Chad Dunford (20:02.382)

Yeah, I set up as funny, I set it up at my desk with the second screen and the monitor in the middle and I brought in a UV light to get that, you know, get the lighting right. And Kimberly's like, you gotta move outside, man.

Shawn Stringham (20:12.511)

Yeah.

Right.

Shawn Stringham (20:19.881)

your eyes.

Chad Dunford (20:20.334)

I got somebody who's like blowing off their driveway. If you can't hear it, then it shouldn't be a problem. Okay. Okay.

Shawn Stringham (20:25.077)

I can't hear it. No, it's fine.

Shawn Stringham (20:31.233)

What you're saying is that I need to not wear my glasses for these, Chloe. Is that true? Is that the challenge or is that I just have really deep eye sockets? of the two. The glasses off would be... Mental note. All right. I can't do that right now because I can't see without them, but like it's a... Or we need to put a light right there that's direct to on top of it. I just want to get that clear. Yeah. But then if I take the glasses off, then it fills that all in, right? Yeah.

Chad Dunford (20:47.97)

Right.

Chad Dunford (20:54.862)

then you get glare, you know?

Shawn Stringham (20:59.649)

Okay, I have contacts. No, that, yeah, that's fantastic. Feels great. Okay, so next segment talking about connection crisis and we'll get deep here. It'll be fun.

Chad Dunford (21:17.87)

I may cry.

Shawn Stringham (21:20.531)

I hope so, that would be great. I'm sure we both are, we're both too emotional about this kind of stuff. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (21:28.366)

Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (21:39.073)

Did how much, by the way, the countdown will be here tonight, by the way. I ordered it. the clock. So we should be good. Okay. That still sounds regular to you, right? That does still sound regular to me. Okay. Cool.

Chad Dunford (21:57.43)

Grab something real quick. OK.

Shawn Stringham (21:58.389)

Please do.

Shawn Stringham (22:03.873)

You need some more.

Shawn Stringham (22:07.485)

I'm bueno.

Shawn Stringham (22:16.481)

is

Shawn Stringham (22:20.491)

Hold on, Chad, I'm going to take a photo. then, let's see here.

Shawn Stringham (22:35.585)

take a photo of both of you.

Shawn Stringham (22:44.095)

Mostly just for B-Rill, but we'll get it in there.

Chad Dunford (22:47.246)

Kimberly's B-Rail is in the same position as well. She just did it a minute ago.

Shawn Stringham (22:52.513)

So you're the main show here, I love it. All right, give us a cue, Chloe, so that we know that we're good to go. All righty, five, four, three, two. So Chad, the Moab trip proved that something works. 21 of 23 men showed up for this and they left different than they arrived.

Chad Dunford (22:56.62)

Chad Dunford (23:19.789)

Well, to be clear, 66 invites went out.

Shawn Stringham (23:23.617)

66 invites. Okay. That's a number that hasn't so 66. So you have a one third conversion rate, which is not bad for Not bad on that But there's a bigger question of like why this is necessary. Like you love it. You love to be on the adventure Hang hang out and be with your friends You had mentioned earlier like people have texted you and you've had a pretty solid response of like this trip has been life-changing it's been

Chad Dunford (23:29.41)

Yeah, not bad, right?

Shawn Stringham (23:51.069)

important for the Stringham family. Like I love it. I plan on going every year as long as I get one, as long as I'm one of the 66 to get the invite. Why do you think men struggle so much to connect?

Chad Dunford (23:59.246)

Yeah.

Chad Dunford (24:09.266)

That is an awesome question and probably a question I'm not worthy to answer other than just from my own life experience. I think I've seen men, well, I'll just, mean, you and I have talked about this quite a bit, but like my dad just passed away in April and my mom asked me, who are your dad's friends? And I...

I really couldn't name them. You know, I could name who his relationships were, but my dad didn't go out and hang out with people. My dad didn't go do, he didn't even really go play golf. He had brothers that he spent time with, you know, once or twice a year, but he didn't have friends that he counseled that he spent time with. that struck me just really, really powerfully. you know, I have the luxury of having, you know, a handful of really, really

close friends that, you you know, the type of friends you'd call if you needed to bury a body, you know, that type of friendship. And, and, and I think that that's, that's a powerful thing to have, have, you know, in my case, three to five men that, that are just always have your back. And that is a, that is a really rare thing in this world. And I think one of the things that

Shawn Stringham (25:11.502)

Yeah, yeah, I got a kick-axe.

Chad Dunford (25:35.894)

one of the life principles that I live by. look at kind of popular culture, and I look at media, I'm sensitive to those types of things. I like to read and listen to things that are counter-cultured to me, you know? And I like to pay attention to the things that they talk about. And I think you and I live in a generation where men have been degraded for most of our lives, if not all of our lives, you know?

Shawn Stringham (25:49.195)

Mm.

Chad Dunford (26:06.05)

where, you know, not to degrade.

media or entertainment, I people make choices, but like, Homer Simpson's, for example, right? Total doofus, really a bad dad, you know, I mean, he showed up at moments, right? He shows up at moments, but he's a, he's a bad, makes bad choices, right? And misses, misses the, important moments in life. And I think that media kind of glorifies that. And I think that

Shawn Stringham (26:22.293)

Ha ha ha!

Chad Dunford (26:39.478)

On the opposite side of that, they take macho men, know, the big muscles and the testosterone fuel, you know, thing, they put those at polar opposites of one another. It's either or. And men are just not that way. mean, men cover that entire spectrum of that. And then you age those men in different segments of that same cross-section and

You just get infinitely variable human beings. I think that that's what I'm interested in is that variability. I'm interested in people's just texture. And I'm interested in connecting to the texture, not driving texture. Does that make sense? Like I don't want to color anybody. I don't want to make somebody they're not. I want to expose who they are to something.

Shawn Stringham (27:28.821)

Yeah, totally. Right.

Shawn Stringham (27:35.061)

Right. So one of the, so the, on the followup to that, like you had mentioned fatherhood, we're, talking about men's relationships here, but, you, you had mentioned that and I, and I want, and I want to ask that, like, and I, and I say this with all respect, like, I consider you of all of my friends and family and there, I have lots, like one of the best examples of what fatherhood should look like, right? Like you are dialed in. I, I'm just curious, like from your own personal side.

Chad Dunford (27:42.914)

Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (28:04.649)

What are a couple of the principles that you use to rule your life to become a, to be a great father? Cause you won't say that you're a great father, but I'm looking from the outside in, like I would definitely say you're one of my top examples of like inclusiveness and all of those. And how did those relate back to the men's relationships as well?

Chad Dunford (28:23.384)

Yeah. Well, thank you for the compliment. But I think, I think men are purposeful. I think men pay attention. Good fathers pay attention. And I think they listen to what's going on. And I think that, I think the inclination really is to like be selfless and to give that all away. But I think that there's a certain

Shawn Stringham (28:38.529)

Mm-hmm.

Shawn Stringham (28:50.389)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Dunford (28:52.318)

level of the concept of you can't give away what you don't have, what you don't have. So if a father is unhealthy, if a father is tired, if a father is battered, I think he's not a good father. And maybe that's the metaphor that something like Homer Simpson's teaching, that you're overworked and underappreciated and you're not a good father. Maybe that's

Shawn Stringham (28:56.991)

Right. Right.

Shawn Stringham (29:17.601)

Right, right.

Chad Dunford (29:21.836)

That's the lesson to be learned. But, you know, I think that these events give a lot of meaning and a lot of purpose and they spark a lot of things. And that was the thing that, you know, I was kind of talking to you about. It's amazing what this trip sparked in people's lives.

Shawn Stringham (29:37.985)

Yeah. Yeah. I was going to, that was going to be my follow-up right there. Right. Like we, we, I think was even just last night when we were, as we're getting ready, like talk about some of the upside, right? Like what, what, have you heard and seen from that that is building?

Chad Dunford (29:54.638)

Yeah, I mean, a big part of it for men in our timeframe is business, right? Business opportunities, people that you can trust, people that you can see kind of an exposed side of that you can kind of see a personality like, that type of risk or that type of planning or that type of, you know, insert whatever thing that you saw that you see as valuable. You think, oh, I want to learn more about that. But I think one of the things that

shocked me was, you know, Pat on our trip, not to name names, but 70, what 76 years old, 77 years old. And he, he told me afterwards, he was so worried that he would be, you know, excluded or that he would suffer because of his age. and, you know, Pat was just such an incredible part of the whole thing. And, you know, part of the parts that I really enjoyed

Shawn Stringham (30:29.249)

Yeah.

Chad Dunford (30:54.84)

were when Pat was right there in the middle of it. I think, you know, exposing somebody who's 76, 77 years old to a situation that, you know, he takes that and shows it to his sons and like, dad's still got it, right? Dad's still got it.

Shawn Stringham (31:10.369)

You still got it. And I have to say that was one of my favorite moments of the trip is where we were going up that hike on Sunday. Right. And I was like, maybe, I mean, maybe not the best choice for all of us, but like you saw 21 dudes, like all come together and make sure everybody made it safely up there. Like that was really like that. I really enjoyed that moment and that experience and seeing people like that's the challenge, right? Like that's the essence of this, like is finding your individual challenge and like,

Chad Dunford (31:27.222)

Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (31:40.107)

people probably who on Friday probably wouldn't have done that, but by Sunday they were like, yeah, we're going to make this, we're going to make this work and, and give them that little confidence and that little boost to be able to go and make, do something else great the next day or the day after, right?

Chad Dunford (31:45.976)

Right. Right.

Chad Dunford (31:54.466)

Right? You know, I feel the same way about, about rappelling and climbing, you know, I mean, it just exposes people in a safe way to something that they would just never do. And it, tells something to the person that, you know, they can do something cool, you know, and it's not cool to be judged by other people. It's, it's, it's cool in a way that it gives you purpose. gives you maybe the confidence to start something else, right? To do something else.

Right? And I think that's really the benefit of what we're talking about here is really that platform to say, wow, maybe I don't have to stay home and watch TV or stay home and look at my four walls. Maybe I can go down a road I've never been down before. Right?

Shawn Stringham (32:43.007)

Right. And, and I get the next follow-up question that like is if someone's listening and they're having this moment of self-awareness again, what give us drop some Chad Dunford truth bombs here of like, how, how do I, as a man will go, cause if we're kind of going like, how, how do I develop some of those skills? Right. How do I, how should I be thinking? How should I be interacting? Like what are, what are some of the things that you would

advice just from your life experience.

Chad Dunford (33:16.064)

I would definitely say one of the most important things that a person can do is find the things that you're passionate about. My dad doesn't have a lot of words of wisdom that he gave me in life, but when I was in school, he told me, said, son, if you'll always do something that you love, then you'll never hate going to work. And I always thought that was remarkable. And I think that being a person who'd

does what I love, in recreation and for work, matters to me. And I think that so many of us, speaking men specifically, make sacrifices for either work or for time or for marriage or for relationships that maybe aren't totally healthy. So I would just say take an assessment of your days, take an assessment of your time and make sure

you're doing something that you're passionate about. It doesn't matter to me if you're baking bread or hanging off a mountain or reloading nine millimeter casings. It doesn't matter to me. Whatever a person is passionate about I think is really, really important. I think that if we...

Shawn Stringham (34:27.445)

Right. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (34:38.126)

I'll give you an example. So I'm artistic. I've been born in an artistic family and I draw and I create and I draw for a living, right? And I realized one day in my middle ages about 10 years ago that I hadn't even drawn a picture, a creative picture in years, right? Because I draw for work, so I neglected it. So I thought, well, I'm just gonna start drawing. And so I grabbed a couple of my friends online and on Facebook and

and said, draw with me for 30 days. And it was so interesting to see what came out of that because it really changed me and I saw me reconnect to painting and I reconnected to other people and their creativity and I created to art in general and it just sparked something in me that I was passionate about that I had let go, right? And I think that there's a lot of that too in life where we just say, well, I don't have time for

or I could never find time to do that. And I think that we were better people when we do. I think we're better employees when we do. I think we're better spouses when we do things that build us up as people. And I've seen that in my own wife. think she's really, that's one of the things that's been important about these trips is that she loves to drive too. And she's like, well, don't want you to get something so big that excludes.

me, you know, I want to be part of this. And but she's been super, super supportive because I think she sees what it means to build, right? I think it means it means so much to me and I become a better husband and a more appreciative father because I do something that I

Shawn Stringham (36:08.001)

Correct. Right, right.

Shawn Stringham (36:24.309)

Right. And, and you've used the word better multiple times, which I love. if you're the, the key thing and the theme behind the trip and we made t-shirts and everything, it was better meant, right? Like, so if you, break that down, better men, better men, like all of those fantastic, not a play on words, but like just a fun graphic there of helping to support men become better. Right. I think that that is, that is the real kind of the key crux of the thing.

Chad Dunford (36:35.5)

Yeah, right.

Chad Dunford (36:48.493)

Right. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (36:56.353)

Cool. Pausing? Perfect. Okay, great job. That was fun.

Chad Dunford (37:02.826)

Awesome. Yeah. Hopefully I'm not too long winded.

Shawn Stringham (37:06.119)

Not at all. No, that's perfect.

Chad Dunford (37:13.218)

I guess this is a talking thing.

Shawn Stringham (37:15.303)

It is like if you're just sitting there staring at me, gets real awkward real fast.

Chad Dunford (37:17.71)

I don't think you and I have ever been short on words, Sean. you ever, can you think of a quiet moment?

Shawn Stringham (37:26.273)

When I thought to myself, like, know, like, who should I help? Like, chat'll talk. yeah, chat'll talk.

Chad Dunford (37:31.342)

You

So I wanted to show this to you Pat made this It's a hardcover book and it's he's he signed it and had a couple people here sign it and You know, he's gone through and edited edited these Matt, you know these pictures and that kind of stuff and I

Shawn Stringham (37:44.999)

nice.

Shawn Stringham (37:59.935)

Nice. Cool.

Chad Dunford (38:05.504)

It blows me away that somebody would be so moved to do something like that. That's a lot of work. That's not a small amount of expense. that's impressive to me. Pat had an experience that was singular in life at 77 years old that I think...

Shawn Stringham (38:28.425)

and walked out with bloody shins to show it.

Chad Dunford (38:30.86)

Yeah, I've made several jokes with he and his wife ever since then and they're both. It's a non-issue. He's like, I'll do it again. You know what mean? I've been like really worried about it because it's like, I want to injure, you know, he's like, even his wife was like everything she said. So many good things came from that trip. So many good things. And I was like, whoa, there's there's more there than right.

Shawn Stringham (38:39.979)

Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Shawn Stringham (38:59.125)

Yep. Hold on. Well, it's just texting me. Perfect timing. One second.

Shawn Stringham (39:10.217)

Okay. Let's see. I did just get a text from Google. needs it? Okay. two eight six seven nine zero.

Shawn Stringham (39:25.897)

I'm just signing into podcasts for creators. Got it.

Shawn Stringham (39:37.045)

Need it again? 290203.

Shawn Stringham (39:51.649)

Just need to see Melissa gonna respond to what time she needs to get picked up. that's Before that comes in Holy cow, we got 27 text messages in that segment. That's crazy. I'm make sure everything being everything is not blowing up

Okay, next section we're going to be talking beyond gender, people in general, communities and men and women, especially as a girl dad and a parent and all of those kinds of fun things. should be, should be pretty fun and exciting.

Chad Dunford (40:30.828)

you.

Shawn Stringham (40:37.121)

Alright.

Give us a countdown, Chloe.

Shawn Stringham (40:47.979)

Chad, again, we spent a lot of time talking about this trip specifically and about trying to get men to connect with one another, but it's not just men, right? Like we've talked about better men in that, but let's zoom out a little bit. The conversation is bigger than just that, right? Women struggle with connection. know, probably our wives struggle with connection. We're not probably saying too much that we shouldn't there. Young people are isolated. I look at my own kids and family and how they are connecting.

People are staring at phones most of the time, right? Instead of each other. What are some of the universal principles here in your mind, right? I know you, we just joked there during the break that like we're never short on words and probably both of us on opinions. So from one person to an ex, one friend to an ex, like, what do you think, how do we create supportive communities for all people, not just men, right? Inclusively.

Chad Dunford (41:42.572)

Right. I think, I think this trip really for me is almost an extension of my belief structure. feel like the biggest thing that a person can do is just, is leave their normal, right? Step out of their, their normal lives, put, put the phone down as much as you can and, and step out and do something. think that, you know, humans are really great at nesting, right? We create these like kind of environments.

both in friendships and in our homes and even in the cars, we drive our own car and we have our things in certain places and we nest really, really well. And some of those behaviors are antisocial, right? Social experiences are hard. We bump up against each other, we misunderstand one another, there's risk, there's embarrassment, all those things. And I think that when we...

embrace that risk. I think it just comes with such texture and such joy. You know, we have a party that we throw where we have people come and tell stories, just people either out of their lives or things that they wrote. And it's been amazing to watch people risk and come stand in front of a group and share some stories, you know, and take that risk. really it is the risk that's the

That's the currency there, right? You're putting yourself out there. And if we don't, if we don't do that in life, we'll be like my dad, we'll just die alone, right? We'll just die alone. And I don't mean to be dramatic there. mean, my dad was a great guy and everything, but really we'll just die without that connection. And for me, you know, the things that you and I have done together that this trip, this trips specifically, and just the building of something there, it's just,

Shawn Stringham (43:23.435)

Right. Yeah.

Chad Dunford (43:40.332)

It's just priceless. And I think that it's because we step out of out of the norm, right? We take that risk and and it just it takes us somewhere that we wouldn't have ever foreseen for ourselves.

Shawn Stringham (43:51.337)

Right. think we've been friends. was just literally just thinking about here coming up on 20 years. It's got to be close to that. Right. Or somewhat right in there easily a little bit more than that. Maybe.

Chad Dunford (43:58.734)

Easily, Well, a little more because Marin was born in that neighborhood and she's 23. So, yeah, we're pushing 25.

Shawn Stringham (44:06.367)

Wow. Yeah. so we shouldn't say things like that, but yeah. So how, how have you grown in those 25 years? Like what, what have been, what are some of the things that you back to the theme of like, what have you done specifically to challenge yourself to kind of grow your perspectives and the things that you're thinking about?

Chad Dunford (44:12.104)

Hahaha!

Chad Dunford (44:30.562)

You know, I...

Maybe my wife's probably the right person to ask for this, I, one of my principles.

Shawn Stringham (44:38.709)

And let's just, let's just do a quick, like we have awesome wives, right? Like we have, we have incredible wives that support us and we support them. And like, think that's a whole nother podcast, but shout out most in Kimberly. So.

Chad Dunford (44:42.722)

We do, for sure, for sure.

Chad Dunford (44:52.686)

True. Absolutely. Yeah, thank you for that for sure. Well, one of the pillars that I live by is to overcome mediocrity. That's something that I guess a mantra that I tell myself is I just don't want to be basic. I don't want to be a person who settles for kind of what that natural human person would tend towards. And so I...

You know, I grew up in a family that was not exposed to college and college expectations. My parents were able to provide an incredible living without college. And I saw my siblings move into life and make lives without the need for college. I just wanted to do something different. And so, you know, it took me till I was 36 years old to graduate from college.

see that as just an incredible point of pride for me is I just didn't settle. And it's not a criticism of other people, but it's a statement of one's self. It's a self, yeah. And it's something that you can always live by. Something that I share with you is cycling and love for cycling. I'm incredibly grateful for that exposure from your side. But I had an experience where I'm...

Shawn Stringham (45:56.203)

Right.

Shawn Stringham (46:02.465)

It's a challenge. Yeah, finding your... It's finding your own challenge, yeah.

Chad Dunford (46:20.416)

I'm compact, shall we say. I'm short and thick. So I've never been a great climber on the bike. I'm extremely durable and can go all day, but I'm not a good climber. And so one year I had read something where it said to train your weaknesses. And so I thought, well, okay, all summer long, I'm just going to climb. And so I would get up in the morning and I would go to Brighton Ski Resort and I would ride around the ski resort. And then I would throw myself up against Guardsmen, right?

And for anybody who doesn't know, Guardsman is like a Tour de France level climb. is...

Shawn Stringham (46:53.729)

Brutal and at 9,000 feet climbing to 11,000 feet, right.

Chad Dunford (46:56.482)

Yeah. So I would do that several times a week and it took me weeks and weeks and weeks. And finally at like walking speed, I reached the summit, right? And great metaphor, right? you know, it's amazing. But the thing about it is the work that it took to get there. I live on that every day. I live on that every day. it's so funny because it's like,

I imagine it's somewhere who goes to Everest or, you know, wins a race or any of that kind of thing. Once you accomplish something, you live on it, right? It's a building block and it just tells you that things are possible. I think I would hope for all people of all genders and all persuasions and all colors that they would find something that they're passionate about and go after it, right? Find that mountain and go after it. And I think that there's lessons along the way that

just priceless. They're just priceless. They teach us things about failure and about ourselves, about compassion, about, you know, forgiveness, about hard work, dedication. I think all those things are just so important and I think they're so valuable in life.

Shawn Stringham (48:08.705)

So last question and we'll wrap it up after this. So for someone out there who's feeling isolated and doesn't have a Chad Dunford in their life, like a blessing that I do have a Chad Dunford in my life, what's their first step? Either as an organizer or as a participant to help kind of overcome some of that isolation.

Chad Dunford (48:32.258)

I'll tell you what I'll tell my kids about dating. Okay. No, nobody, or I should say no boy, nobody's going to turn down a shake and fries. Okay. So in your, in your desperation, in your isolation, that's your vehicle, right? You find somebody interesting. You find somebody that is maybe, maybe they're completely out of your league.

Shawn Stringham (48:35.165)

Okay, I can't wait. Truth on coming. Here we go.

Chad Dunford (49:02.732)

Maybe they're an athlete, maybe they're, you know, super intelligent. Buy them a shake and fries and ask them how they got there and ask them, you know, or maybe it's somebody who's also down in the dumps, right? Hey, can we do something together? Anything. Can we do something together? Right. I mean, who knows what'll come out of it, but I think taking that step outside of yourself and using the easy, easy vehicle of

Shaken fries. It's, yeah.

Shawn Stringham (49:34.431)

Right. I love that. this is how, know, that we're good parents. Like we, let's just call it like we're, we're, we're okay at this. We're, it's not, maybe like, just, we're going to show a little confidence here because that's the same thing I tell my kids. Like, especially the girls was like, if you want to go out with someone, ask them out. They're not going to say no. Right. Like if you want to, if you want to do something, don't sit around and wait for someone to call you like just

go out and do it. Like it's a big step and I think that's a skill that we're losing for everyone, for all ages, right?

Chad Dunford (50:09.643)

Right, right, for sure. And you know, I think you'll find your people, right? You'll find your people, for sure. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (50:15.967)

Yeah, totally cool. Chad, this has been really powerful. Thanks for taking a little time out of your afternoon. I know you had mentioned you've got deadlines to hit. and so if, I don't know if you, if you want to, you know, go, go, go be a Chad Dunford, everyone. Let's just call it that. let create something. Yeah, that's a fantastic way. Let's just create something. Let's go with that.

Chad Dunford (50:38.638)

Create something.

Shawn Stringham (50:44.351)

Chad Dunford, 23 men, one weekend in Moab, but it was never about off-roading, right? It was about creating space for real connection in a world that's kind of forgotten how. Chad, thank you for having me be a part of that. Thank you for being a part of this podcast. I think we're going to make this a regular thing. There's a great connection. Go find your own adventure. Shake and fries. No, shake and burger and shake. Fries and a shake.

Chad Dunford (51:02.851)

Love it.

Chad Dunford (51:09.678)

Yep, yep, fries in the shape, fries in the shape, fries in the shape, yep.

Shawn Stringham (51:13.131)

Fries and a shake. love that hashtag fries and a shake. Let's do that. I'm going to, I'm going to give you one last word, Chad. Anything else you want to drop?

Chad Dunford (51:23.748)

man, people matter. Let's, you know, for those that are not ambitious and reaching out, find somebody that needs you and make a difference, right? Start that conversation. It matters. In this day and age, people matter.

Shawn Stringham (51:35.105)

Cool. So here's everyone's challenge. Who are you going to reach out to this week? Right? Not a text, not a like, a real conversation, a real plan, maybe even your own adventure. If this episode resonated, please subscribe to find your challenge, share it with someone who needs community and tell us your story. What's your challenge in building connection? We've got more guests coming up. We're excited. Follow along here. We've got some great stories to tell.

Until next time, go find your challenge. Go be great. Thanks, Chad. Appreciate it. Yeah. Peace.

Chad Dunford (52:08.526)

You're welcome. Thanks, Sean. Appreciate it.

Shawn Stringham (52:19.821)

okay, great.

We didn't lose Chad, right? Nope. He's still on there. Okay. Still recording. Oh, we were just bringing me the intro. All right. And so did he needs to hang until you tell him to leave, right? To keep the recording solid and the recording. you, did I hear over here? You say Trevor is in, is a higher definition than what we're seeing here. Is that true? Yes. Great. Chad, how did that feel?

Chad Dunford (52:23.214)

I didn't hear it.

Chad Dunford (52:49.582)

Fun, it felt natural. mean, it's nice to get over the first couple of minutes and now it feels really good.

Shawn Stringham (52:58.049)

Guess where I'm going this weekend.

Chad Dunford (53:01.048)

Are you going back to Moab? are you a good boy? Just the two of you? my gosh. I'm taking my wife on a cruise, so.

Shawn Stringham (53:02.421)

Take Melissa to Moab. Just the two of us. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (53:09.727)

That's right. We shouldn't talk about that. Dang it. That's a...

Shawn Stringham (53:18.785)

you

Chad Dunford (53:20.718)

Does Melissa like climbing? Does she like rope work? Does she like rappelling?

Shawn Stringham (53:25.223)

I, she is very, she's one of those like women are better climbers than men because she has the perfect body for it. You know what I mean? She, she's really good. Like when we go to momentum and all of that, she's like, we, this is why we need the Dunford school for boys and have like you to actually teach us how to do something other than just be on belay type thing. yeah, but we're, we're just going to go.

Chad Dunford (53:31.17)

100%. 100%.

Shawn Stringham (53:53.346)

I mean, we're actually not even leaving until Saturday on like at 10 o'clock. Uh, cause we had some other stuff, like, we're just going to bop down for 20, 24, 36 hours anyway.

Chad Dunford (54:06.098)

I would love to take some family groups, some close, not a public group at all, but take some family groups down and go do, you can rappel the topside of Merriweather Arch down into Negro Bill Canyon or Bill Grindstaff Canyon as it's called now, and then hike out. So it's a point to point thing and it's it's killer. It's super fun. And it's not a big rappel, but it's just a fun start.

Shawn Stringham (54:32.3)

Yeah.

Cool. All right. We're recording? We're good? All right. Is this just voice or is this me? So I have to make sure I'm present on the camera is what you're saying. Fantastic. right. 23 men, two days, Gemini Bridge and Finns and Things Trails in Moab, Utah.

Rigs crawling over red rocks, tires finding impossible lines, grown men laughing like teenagers in a hot tub. On paper, it was an off-roading trip, but Chad Dunford built something deeper. He created space for men to actually connect, not just coexist, to be vulnerable without being weak, to support without being asked. Most men are lonely. They have acquaintances, not brotherhood. They have surface conversations, not real connection. Chad's trying to change that one adventure at a time.

This is Find Your Challenge.

Shawn Stringham (55:39.212)

First take? Cool.

Chad Dunford (55:41.656)

Home run, brother. Home run.

Shawn Stringham (55:49.942)

Yeah, let's just get it. Let's make sure we're.

 

Chad Dunford is a connector, adventurer, and advocate for intentional living, meaningful relationships, and personal growth. He is passionate about creating spaces where men can step outside their comfort zones, take healthy risks, and build authentic connections through shared experiences.

As a guest on the Find Your Challenge podcast, Chad joins Shawn Stringham to reflect on their Moab adventure and the deeper purpose behind it—not just off-roading, but fostering brotherhood, honest conversation, and life-changing moments. He shares insights on the challenges men face in forming deep friendships, balancing family with personal passions, and avoiding mediocrity by pursuing what truly matters.

Beyond the podcast, Chad believes that growth is found through action, risk, and community. He emphasizes doing what you love, embracing adventure, and investing in relationships that create lasting memories. Through intentional challenges and shared experiences, Chad encourages others to seek growth, connection, and a life filled with purpose and joy.