Shawn Stringham (00:01.166)

Dusty, it is fantastic to have you back on the podcast. Thank you so much. I was thinking about it. And I think that you are now like, you're the most represented guest on the Game On Live Studio podcast. think this is the third or fourth time that we've done this with you. And I think hopefully we're getting better each time, but thanks for being here and sharing some thoughts with us for the next few minutes.

Dustin Litvak (00:23.265)

Yeah, happy to be here looking forward to another year.

Shawn Stringham (00:25.58)

Another year. Here we go. so we, we, we're coming back into another year for futures. but we're in, we're doing for right now for, this, as we're launching this podcast, we're, we are going into the season four and the first few episodes are about goals, legends, and you have been, you have been anointed a goals legend because of your ongoing support of game on live studio.

and what you've done for the sport. And I just, so we've been doing just a little bit of kind of history documentation. So we're going to go back in time just a little bit. But again, thanks for everything you've done for us and for WaterPolo and supporting us. So I want you to go back in time to 2021 when we were coming out of COVID and you decided that you're going to bring super finals to Salt Lake City.

just go through, we're gonna just start talking about that. What do you remember about that timeframe? What were some of the things that were great about that and what were some of the struggles that you came in? From a history standpoint, about goals and about super finals and about the league and some of the stresses you were feeling at that point as we were building this all out.

Dustin Litvak (01:46.403)

I remember a lot actually about that time. You know, it's funny because a lot of frustrations, you know, we had obviously had to cancel the league in 2020 halfway through and, you know, we were kind of in an uncertain place and California had a lot of restrictions. And so it wasn't feasible to do the super finals or even have a league in California at that time.

Shawn Stringham (01:54.445)

Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (02:11.587)

and do it the right way. And so it was just roadblock after roadblock. And I was getting really frustrated. And I honestly, I remember vividly, just thinking like, let's just hang it up. This is the end of futures. I'm dealing with a lot of stuff I don't need to deal with right now. And it doesn't look promising. I remember calling actually Mark St. John and telling him like, it's over and Mark being Mark and.

Shawn Stringham (02:33.634)

Yeah, yeah.

Dustin Litvak (02:38.251)

Always a guy to find, he just finds ways to get things done. That's just who he is, his personality. He should have been a movie producer, I think.

Shawn Stringham (02:41.356)

Right. Yeah.

And just so you know, Mark St. John, also one of the Goals legends that has been interviewed as we've had on this in terms of like navigating that timeframe.

Dustin Litvak (02:50.059)

Rightfully so, yeah.

Dustin Litvak (02:55.125)

Yeah, and he just kind of like talking me off the ledge a little bit of like, Hey, what are you doing? Like, you've built a brand here, like this thing has to sustain, let's figure it out. We'll find a way he gate. He's like, you got to call this guy Sean in Utah. You know, and kind of like showed me a little bit of a roadmap of, know, how we could do this and just basically said, let's give it some thought, give it some more thought, like, do not give up futures, you don't know what you're doing here. You know, what you've got. So

Shawn Stringham (03:19.458)

Right. Right.

Dustin Litvak (03:23.903)

It's his credit. Like I think without Mark, it would have been done to be honest. You know, and so, you know, yeah, we had a few conversations where he really, again, just was very always positive like he is and just kept like, you know, urging me to figure it out and put me in contact with you. And I remember that we had some good conversations over the phone and then you were working with six eight, I believe at the time. So there was a like the six eight clinic or camp out out in St. George, Utah.

So I agreed with Tony to work for that and just got to drive through the beautiful state of Utah and then tour a lot to get to the different pools, but just amazing scenery stuff that I've never seen before living in California or in New Jersey.

Shawn Stringham (04:06.349)

was just gonna say, yeah, like, yeah.

Shawn Stringham (04:14.637)

You can't say it too loud because we like people to visit, like you can everyone else can stay where they are, right? We want to keep it to ourselves a little bit, but.

Dustin Litvak (04:20.163)

Well, yeah, I'd love to get back there and maybe just tour it from a, you know, non-water polo, but to vacation. Yeah, but no, it was amazing. I mean, the venues were awesome. The people were phenomenal. Everybody wanted water polo to happen, number one, and, you know, everybody was so welcoming and willing to make it work. And, of course, you know, there were challenges. There weren't as many facilities. know, some, you know, they were a little further apart.

Shawn Stringham (04:24.855)

Yeah. A different perspective. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (04:48.727)

You know, so things like that, but it gave us an opportunity not just to have the super finals that year, but also to have the first ever women's, you know, girls super finals. We hadn't done that before. was just a boys league. Yeah, that was the first one. And we'd been wanting to do it. We talked about it for a while. But that just, again, created an opportunity that no one has. There wasn't an opportunity to play yet. You know, I think after that, the restrictions lightened up.

Shawn Stringham (04:57.825)

Yeah. really? I didn't really. Wow.

Dustin Litvak (05:16.181)

in California and things were able to exist there. But again, it was, if I remember correctly, just for California teams, wasn't they weren't going to allow any outside teams at that point. I might be wrong on that, but correct. Right. Right. That's what I remember, at least. And so this still allowed us to bring in obviously the teams from Utah, but also we had teams from Greenwich, from Texas, you know, from other states that are.

Shawn Stringham (05:27.467)

Right. In California. Yeah. You couldn't go to California and play. Right. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (05:42.2)

you know, have been traditionally part of the league and we didn't want to just have a super final without them. So, it was awesome. You know, it was great. And it really just kind of, I think, spearheaded the growth of the league and, really built the brand and, love to go back there, have to figure it out. You know, the league has expanded so much that I don't know if there are enough facilities to accommodate the size of super finals at this point. but, I think, you know, having those kinds of events all over the country is, is only, you know, good for the sport.

Shawn Stringham (06:01.419)

Right? Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (06:12.407)

Right. For sure. And when, I mean, you mentioned this a little bit. I, one of the vivid things that I remember is you're, going around and visiting all, think we had six or seven different sites and they're, they're semi-closed. Yeah. And, and you just saying like, man, we just need more warmup space, right? Like try and trying to sort out and figure out how to, how to, how to craft that. I guess one of the questions is when you announced it, like, Hey, we're moving this to Salt Lake city.

Dustin Litvak (06:23.949)

I think it was like 10 or 12.

Shawn Stringham (06:41.781)

What was the response from some of your, from the teams? Were they, I mean, excited to play so it didn't really matter or what kind of feedback did you get from them?

Dustin Litvak (06:51.363)

Yeah, mean, I'd have to go back and look through my emails. But for the most part, was super positive. And if you look at it, like everybody came. There were very few clubs that said no. At that point, people just wanted to play. I mean, you know, I don't know, we could have moved the Super Finals to Australia. They might have come. I don't know. You know, they just wanted to play. So I remember, you know, probably 95 % positive.

Shawn Stringham (06:57.569)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (07:15.64)

I think there's always some people, not so much even clubs with parents, things like that, that are going to have issue with something. But overall, tremendously positive.

Shawn Stringham (07:28.033)

Great. Cool. I'm curious. you, you come out of that where I think that was June and July of 2021. there was a J O's that year, but that was the year where it could only be California teams in session one and two, as I recall. just talk about some of the growth. mean, you, you have seen, said in 2021, you add the women's team, like you have been managing some hockey stick growth really for this overall league and demand to be in the league. just talk about.

how you have managed that from your seat on the bus as a commissioner of the league.

Dustin Litvak (08:04.387)

Number one, I have a tremendous amount of help, but I definitely don't do this by myself. I Peggy McClintock, who's our league administrator, has been with me since day one and she's phenomenal and, you know, handles a lion's share as well as Sheila Lafour, who's been with us from day one and she's our kind of our webmaster and that handles a lot of that sort of thing. And then, you know, when I when we started this, John Barney and I were kind of co-running it. He was up in NorCal coaching at Stanford at the time. And so it was very small. You know, I think we had 16, 18 hundred

boys teams and 16, 16 or boys teams. And maybe that's it. And we did, we did have 14s and 12s after that. James Lathrop came and became involved. Um, and, and so having, um, you know, James still involved in Guy Baker and NorCal is been phenomenal. Um, and then, you know, Payden on the, on the girl side and SoCal has been great. Um, and then, you know, recently added John Barnea back in, um, as well as Matt Flesher, um, in Southern California with the 14 under 1200 boys and girls, uh, respectively. Um, and then Trent Calder.

for our kind of outside California group. there's a lot of people doing a lot. And I apologize if I forgot about anybody, but you know, there's no way I can handle this and the growth of league by myself. know, with that, you know, some of the bigger points that, you know, try to emphasize is trying to keep the quality of the league while, you know, still giving opportunities for all these teams that want to play. You know, that was that's kind of been one of my sticking points is

you know, we're going to create something that that hopefully is a good product. Let's make it available. You know, I understand the, you know, the elitism mentality of let's just keep this for just the top top group. But that doesn't help grow the sport, which is a big priority for me. And I didn't mention Levan Dermangian, who's been our head referee, who's been incredible because that's been a big piece of this, too. You know, one of the downsides of the pandemic is we lost a lot of referees that just decided not to ref anymore. They got, you know, a taste of weekends off and

Shawn Stringham (09:37.729)

Right.

Shawn Stringham (09:56.63)

Absolutely.

Shawn Stringham (10:01.073)

freedom.

Dustin Litvak (10:01.464)

family time and yeah, a lot of them have other jobs and so to not be on the pool deck all weekend was kind of refreshing for some. So a lot of referees stopped officiating after COVID and so for him to be able to manage that with help from some of his colleagues as well has been huge for the growth of the league and for us to hopefully help some of these referees get more experience year round as well and help them grow and develop.

Again, just a lot of people involved and I think the vision again is like the best possible quality while making it available to as many people as we can, you know, possibly make it available to in clubs that are, you know, handling themselves professionally. What we don't want to do is just take, you know, let anybody in and deal with issues that aren't good for the sport.

Shawn Stringham (10:46.861)

Right. So as you, mean, from, again, as the commissioner and you're obviously over SoCal and have a ton of help happening, um, what do you ever like zoom out and say, like, what, and kind of look at what the impact the league has had on athletes, the sport teams, clubs themselves, like just in general, like, do you, you ever have that kind of metaphysical like, wow, we've really changed the sport by doing this league.

Dustin Litvak (11:16.6)

I guess I haven't really thought about to that extent. I definitely, you know, thought about some of the clubs that have kind of started very small and have grown just like the league has grown. And we've seen some of these clubs like it's almost like your kids, you know, you see them very young and then they develop into some of these powerhouses that are now, you know, winning, you know, titles at futures or JOs or, or producing, you know, high school champions or college, you know, athletes. so that part's been really, really exciting. obviously.

Shawn Stringham (11:24.577)

Yeah. Right.

Dustin Litvak (11:44.194)

more and more clubs are emailing each year to get in. And so, you I think that's good that there's growth of the sport. So that piece, you know, and then, you know, where you guys come in as well is just the fact that it's now available for everybody to watch. And I think that piece has helped a lot of athletes, you know, putting on my college hat, you know, for sure, we have a lot more video access to athletes, whether it's watching it live or the highlight videos they send in later on.

that piece has been really, really, I think, critical to the athletes development. And I think also for a lot of the clubs, I can remember back when I was a club coach, we didn't typically film our games. It wasn't like high school. It's definitely not like college where you have managers and you have people that can, you maybe a parent can do it, but now you don't have to do that. Now the games are already being filmed and they're being commentated. So, you know, it's all there for you and it's available, which is great. And I think it's a great tool.

Shawn Stringham (12:39.393)

Yeah, very cool. Do you feel like has there been changes with every game being visible? you seen change? Can you think of like, like there with that kind of record of those individual games of within organizing the sport? Has that made a difference for you as an organizer?

Dustin Litvak (12:57.156)

Yeah, I think it's great. I think in a lot of a lot of ways, you know, again, put wearing a lot of different hats here again, as a college coach, it's amazing to be able to be on the East Coast and watch games, you know, all day, if I want to or see certain athletes that we're trying to watch. So that part is great. I think it's also great for the athletes to be able to share those with their families. You know, and then I again, I think for for the sport to continue to grow, has to be visible. So that piece.

Shawn Stringham (13:03.253)

Right. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (13:08.961)

Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (13:25.496)

you know, is prominent. And there's also, look, the unfortunate piece that video does help us with in case there are issues at games. We can go back and look at it and evaluate.

Shawn Stringham (13:37.229)

Those are always my favorite texts that I get from you. like, need this course at this time. Like what happened there type things.

Dustin Litvak (13:40.632)

Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (13:45.25)

Yeah, I mean, we don't have VAR yet. I don't know if that's coming. But, you know, I do think that that's part of the quality of the league is that, you know, when we're getting complaints or if there's overly physical play or a call that, you know, like for us to be able to go back and look at it and share it with our head referee, it's also development for the referees. Because if you think about it, too, like there are some officials that go back and watch video, but a lot of them, you know, don't have the time to. And so for our head referee to be able to

Shawn Stringham (13:58.412)

Right.

Shawn Stringham (14:04.193)

Yeah, totally.

Dustin Litvak (14:14.04)

to look at some of these and evaluate the growth of the officials and share some moments and clips of them, I think is super important.

Shawn Stringham (14:20.801)

Yeah. From a, from a college coach perspective, and a recruiting perspective, can you think of, maybe don't share a name. Can you think of any specific athlete where the streaming and the video like totally changed the trajectory of that athlete? Maybe that's not in Southern California out there that's playing that is, that has given them the opportunity to shine.

Dustin Litvak (14:44.376)

Yeah, I mean, there's there's a ton of examples. Again, I don't know if I can say any names, but I think, you know, it's not just about, again, those those West Coast kids that we're seeing. It's also those East Coast kids, you know, that are that are now being able to put videos together and share. mean, you look at, know, how many of those guys are playing and women to are playing now on top college teams. So I think that piece for sure. mean, it's it's funny, too, because, know, we don't typically stream.

Shawn Stringham (14:48.939)

Right.

Dustin Litvak (15:13.218)

The youngers, the 12s and 14s, we do at superfinals, but not during the league. But I think about some of our early superfinals where it's like, I'm handing out the top player, 12 and under Ward, and now this guy's dominating college water polo. Yeah, he's like 6'5", and so that part's kind of fun too.

Shawn Stringham (15:29.999)

Yeah, that kid is at national championship.

Shawn Stringham (15:36.236)

Well, and that part is always amazing to me. Like I was at the, I was at the national championship this a couple of weekends ago and we were there and I had the both rosters and I was looking and I thought 10 of the 14 athletes that were in the water were, had played on goals, right? Had been on game on live studio. And I was just like, that was kind of an amazing thing, right? And you see, you know, the writer Dodds and you see the West Tampkins and you see kids like that who like,

Literally at super finals in 2021 in Salt Lake, like I pulled West Temkin and the 680 boys out. And I talked to him about it. He do you remember when I did those? And I said, that was the best. That was so cool. So it's been very satisfying to see athletes like that come through and are playing at the very top level that started in futures and have been seen on game on Live Studio.

Dustin Litvak (16:28.214)

Yeah, it's kind of funny because, you know, Ryder was a freshman in high school at Salt Lake Superfinals and was, I believe, red carded from the semifinals. He was on a very talented Vanguard team, if I remember correctly, and got either, I think it was red carded from the semifinals of 1800 boys and wasn't allowed to play in the final. And well, maybe that was just a little more fuel for the fire for him, but clearly, yeah.

Shawn Stringham (16:32.747)

Yeah. Yep.

Shawn Stringham (16:39.309)

Yeah, he was,

Shawn Stringham (16:49.163)

Right.

Shawn Stringham (16:52.877)

Writers so my the first time I ever had the bright idea of like hey these guys are good like we should do we should do a postgame interview it was It was writer and Wes and pulled him out on the mission deck and like hey come over here like so that's always one of my favorite fun stories to tell as well, so Cool, let's pause right there. Fantastic. Everything good Chloe

Dustin Litvak (17:05.379)

Mm-hmm.

Shawn Stringham (17:20.159)

On your side.

Shawn Stringham (17:24.973)

And if I air phone batteries might be dying here, they're a little clicky

Shawn Stringham (17:35.551)

I remember that game and I remember, do remember now that you say that, I do remember that game where he was red carded out of there. And then the other, the other memory is when the Greenwich, the Greenwich guys were there. It's like, I need to turn this ambient mic down because this guy's cursing every other word.

Dustin Litvak (17:51.242)

you know, and I obviously this part's not going to the podcast, but I only remember that because at the airport afterwards, Ryder's dad was very inebriated and came after me pretty aggressively, not like physically, but like verbally, and like it was my fault that he got red carded. And finally, Brian Anderson and I think it was Choco or Sasha at the time kind of stepped in, but it was like, I'm not the referee, man.

Shawn Stringham (17:57.409)

Right.

Shawn Stringham (18:04.5)

really?

Shawn Stringham (18:08.033)

Yeah. Right. Right.

Dustin Litvak (18:18.82)

I understand that my name is on this thing, but I don't decide who gets, you know, tossed. don't assign the referees and you don't decide, you know, any of that stuff. And I understand your frustration, but yeah, that's a vivid memory. And then, and then it was funny because, know, then I was actually flying back to LA and I was on the plane with them sitting next to rider is chase and his parents were in the row right in front. And it was just being a rider in the row behind. So that was funny.

Shawn Stringham (18:19.126)

Yeah.

I don't assign the red cards. Yeah, exactly.

Shawn Stringham (18:39.926)

Right.

Shawn Stringham (18:47.007)

That is funny. All right. Chloe, we happy? We're good?

Shawn Stringham (18:57.997)

Cool. Okay, so Dusty, we've gotten through our history lesson here a little bit. Let's talk about the actual league. I mean, the competitive balance, some of the elite development that goes there, the championship atmosphere, you guys do a great job. And in my opinion, Futures has become really the gold standard for club water polo leagues. The structure of the league is fantastic.

kind of talk through the origin story, right? Where the league came from. We've talked about 2021 on, but obviously existed between that, before that a little bit. And as you talk about that origin, think about like, yeah, I wanted to get this to start where we're going to have 60 teams participating in this.

Dustin Litvak (19:39.012)

Yeah, number one, I don't know if we had the vision for the growth of that point. think, you know, so so the league, you know, before this, there was an Ironman Waterpoll League that Robert Lynn had started, and I was a part of that, you helping him organize that. And just for various reasons, it kind of just kind of, you know, there were there are pieces of it that I think worked well, but there were pieces that just didn't work. You know, like he had a very European mindset. And so some of that just didn't it wasn't going to work logistically here. And

Shawn Stringham (19:42.539)

Right, yeah, yeah.

Dustin Litvak (20:07.972)

Anyway, for again, a lot of various reasons, it just kind of disbanded. And so when that happened, John Barnett and I started talking of like, hey, there's still a void here that needs to be filled. Let's figure something out. You know, and again, he was very instrumental in kind of like the formation of the league and, you know, his piece always to me was keep it small, keep it small. still kind of gives me a little bit of a crap for that. Yeah. But I think he appreciates where it's at now too. You know, and so

Shawn Stringham (20:29.708)

Gives you the business.

Dustin Litvak (20:36.696)

It was really about, again, just trying to create a really professional league and just the way we communicate. A lot of our sport, unfortunately, isn't that professional. We didn't want to be the league where there's very little communication or you send an email and two months later you get a response or schedules are changing the night before. Some of this stuff is unavoidable and we're not perfect, but that was the mindset going into this of like,

You know, we want to respect that parents have a lot on their plates, you multiple kids in different sports and we need to get them these schedules as far in advance as possible so they can play on their weekends. you know, create also a league where, again, we can kind of keep the level, you know, as equal as possible as you can, and put meaning to the games. That was a big piece of it. You know, I think I've talked about this before, but you know, a lot of the times, you know, when I was coaching high school and club, like club.

Shawn Stringham (21:24.78)

Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (21:34.948)

games were pretty meaningless until you got to JOs, know, JO quals and JOs. And so the, the accountability for the athletes to come to practice, you know, consistently and train the right way in the off season, it was difficult to manage. Um, you know, in high school, it's easy. Everybody wants to be there. Everybody's looking forward to the games, you know, and the, and the tournaments coming up. So this was more of a way to say, Hey, these games matter, you know, and if you don't do well, then your team has, it might, may get relegated. Um, and if you're in a lower division and you do well,

Shawn Stringham (21:50.924)

Everyone wants to be there.

Dustin Litvak (22:04.388)

okay, you can move up and that's exciting. And I think, you know, that that gives hopefully a reason to train and to get better. I think, you know, the only way you get better is to compete. So I think that that was kind of the mindset behind it. And then more and more teams, you know, wanted to join. And so, you know, creating the different divisions where there is now, I think we started that two, three years ago where there's relegation, not just year to year, but within the year.

Shawn Stringham (22:05.568)

Did it

Shawn Stringham (22:29.738)

Right? Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (22:30.532)

And the new kind of wrinkle this year for 14 new boys and 12 new boys is there will be a relegation. We haven't had that before. We've kind of just said you're in this division and that's how it is for the year. for the most part, I think we've gotten it right. But there's always one or two teams that we don't. And so this gives them a chance to move up or down.

Shawn Stringham (22:52.224)

Yeah. No, and I love the relegation, the promotion and relegation system built, built into this is phenomenal, right? Like from my, from my perspective, like we, I've coached and with, with Olympus participating, like he put in division four. And I think one of the years, like we worked all the way up to middle of D two, right? Like you have that opportunity to advance. and the athletes see that and you know, like we're on this fourth game of the weekend and.

Um, that gives you something to coach to, right? Like, I mean, that really is the best moment where you, and you recognize like, Oh, that one goal makes the difference between whether we're moving up or we're, or we're not one way or the other. So, um, are you, where are you now as we go into 2026? can't believe we're saying that. Um, I know we've had four divisions. we moving? What are we going to five this year?

Dustin Litvak (23:47.396)

We're going to five for 16 and 18 new boys. And we're expanding a little bit with the 14s and 12s. Not more divisions, but more teams per division. again, this is all we're trying to manage the pool space and also more so referee availability while still trying to give as many teams as a chance that want one. So we are growing a little bit this year and we'll see how that goes.

Shawn Stringham (24:13.044)

And did you, like in terms of the connection of coaches or with clubs, as they reach out to you, how do you qualify them for lack of a better word, right? Like you've mentioned a couple of times, people reaching out, the growth, what is your process for just kind of checking in, make sure that they're a good fit for the league.

Dustin Litvak (24:33.816)

I mean, some of it's trial and error, to be honest. mean, definitely, if they're in areas where we're familiar with other clubs and we're going to vet out, you know, some opinions about that club and again, how they handle themselves also just kind of working with our referees who have opinions as well. But a lot of it is, you know, trying to give someone a chance and then if they abuse the opportunity, then they won't be invited back, you know, more so than I would say.

trying to look for ways not to let people in at the beginning. That's not really the way we're going about this.

Shawn Stringham (25:05.26)

Right. And it's so cool that like, I mean, we really, I can't believe we're like, it starts in three weeks from when we're recording, right? As we're, as we're three or four weeks, I think, as we're thinking about this in Southern California, the best, for those who are listening, the best part about this is like you have futures leagues happening in SoCal. You have the futures league happening in Northern California. You have Texas. Um, and really you're battling, you know, you're battling for position.

Dustin Litvak (25:16.034)

Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (25:34.261)

And then on top of that, just like you would, you can win that league, just like you would have the American league and national league and baseball, right. And then have the opportunity to come together for the battle royale, which is super finals. Right. and so you have SoCal versus NorCal and you throw in the teams from outside of those regions. what about that model excites you the most? Like as an, as an organizer, as a commissioner, like, when do you get the most excited?

Dustin Litvak (26:05.604)

I mean, I think just like no, no, no, no, that definitely not. I think I think part of it is even like you mentioned prior, like I like to tune in during those crossover weekends, you know, and seeing those those last games on Sunday where it's like you win this game, you're moving up, you lose, you're moving down. And like some of the you a of those tend to go to shootouts or one goal games because because of how close those teams are and just the excitement and joy like you don't see that normally in February or March.

Shawn Stringham (26:07.808)

When it's over, you're done.

Shawn Stringham (26:17.718)

Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (26:27.382)

Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (26:34.666)

Right. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (26:35.14)

Um, and so that part, I think is, is really exciting. Um, you know, and then of course, to see all the athletes, you know, um, you know, excited to be there, uh, at the super finals and compete in all the different divisions and age groups. It's awesome to watch the 12 and unders, you know, as, uh, uh, you know, some of those, their first time ever being at the event, um, you know, and all the way up to the 18th, we've been there for, for many, many years. Um, so I think again, um, really throughout the year and, and just, uh,

seeing how excited they are to like compete. Because that's what I love about the sport.

Shawn Stringham (27:07.04)

Yeah. Very cool. What's something that you think about all the time as the commissioner of the league that the people that are, you know, the athletes or the parents or coaches probably don't think about that creates some anxiety for you or that maybe you can teach us like how we can be better prepared for the league.

Dustin Litvak (27:30.372)

Um, yeah, I mean, I think it's not going to be, you know, it's not going to too surprising. Um, you know, a lot of the logistics in terms of like getting all the pools lined up and, making sure that, uh, everything is set up and ready to go and the staff at the pool is ready for what to expect and prepared. And, um, you know, just all the logistical stuff that that's the stuff that's the hardest, especially as the league grows and, um, you know, trying to keep, you know, I, I will say, you know, scheduling wise.

myself and the other schedulers do the best we can to work with the coaches of various clubs to say, you've got a long way to travel. So let's give you later games on Saturday and earlier games on Sunday and get you out of here. And trying to figure that piece out. And now that we have teams flying in like Olympus, but others trying to manage the flight piece of that as well and make sure everybody can make their flights. really just trying to make, again, the league as conducive as possible for all the different teams.

Sometimes those larger breaks are unavoidable and I know that that's frustrating for parents and sometimes for the athletes themselves and the coaches. So we try to make sure that if a team is getting a longer break on one weekend that they're not gonna get either two days in a row or for sure not two weekends in a row, those longer breaks. So just kind of like managing all that. But again, even with that, to be honest, sometimes I think we're doing the right thing and we're giving a team like a two, three game break and then the coach says, what are you doing? We need a longer break.

You know, every coach also has their own philosophy and that's also been eye opening for me is that that's how much that these coaches care about these games. You know, it's not like let's get in, let's get out, you know, and get on with our weekend. It's like, no, we really care about the results of these games. You know, this is not a long enough break for us to perform, you know, to our potential, you know, in a second game of the day. So that part's been interesting too.

Shawn Stringham (29:19.916)

Well, that amazing thing about you specifically is that you're managing this from New Jersey, from Princeton, right? You're on the other side of the country. It's nice that you, with an 8 a.m. game start, maybe that's 10 a.m., so you have a little bit of time to prep before you're going into it. just talk about how, from a logistics standpoint, how you are managing this and communicating and talking through that.

Because there's a lot of secret sauce there that you bring to this to make sure all of this comes out professionally. And that's really one of the best parts about Futures is the emphasis and focus on communication and preparation.

Dustin Litvak (30:00.802)

Yeah, I mean, and just to clarify, managing managing myself is mainly the SoCal portion. So with Nor Cal, it is James and Guy for the most part. You know, it's they do amazing. Yeah, amazing job and definitely paid and does a lot of the high school girls stuff here. So that's a lot that's not on my plate. That's you know, they're in the same time zone, which is easier for sure. I would say a couple of things. Number one, were three hours difference, right? So the games don't start till 11 a.m. here. You know that.

Shawn Stringham (30:06.432)

Right. Yeah, Right. Who do a great job as well? Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (30:16.214)

Right.

Dustin Litvak (30:29.284)

Honestly, like I would prefer it the other way. I'm much more of a morning person than a night person. know, the challenge more for me is, you know, when the games are running a little bit behind and maybe they end, you know, closer to like eight or nine PM on the West Coast and that's 11 o'clock or midnight. And again, one of my biggest things is like, I want the scores updated right away. I want the standings updated. I want the scores updated right away. And I do all of that for Southern California outside the high school girls, which Payton does. So like that to me is harder.

to be honest with you, is the end of it, the evening portion, then the morning portion. Because again, like on any given weekend, there's 10 to 12 courses going, different age groups. And so I'm getting texts all the time of scores or issues. so trying to make sure that all that gets inputted as quickly as possible and updated as quickly as possible. And sometimes these are advancement games and people have to know when they're playing next. So.

That piece of it, I would say is probably the most challenging, not being in the same time zone. But, you know, I've done it now for enough years where we make it work.

Shawn Stringham (31:32.416)

Yeah. Cool. Very cool. What's harder, coaching Princeton or running the league?

Dustin Litvak (31:39.918)

Harder, different. don't think one is, yeah, totally different. Yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, it's of course intentional, but the fact that our season at Princeton is the fall, you know, and we don't have a lot of futures going on in the fall is very helpful. Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (31:41.814)

different.

Shawn Stringham (31:58.517)

is the reason, right? That all that works out. And what about the future, right? Like, I mean, we've talked a little bit about it. Now, you mentioned originally that we didn't get into it thinking this was going to be a big deal, but like, what are some of the growth opportunities for the league over the next two to five years in your mind?

Dustin Litvak (32:19.172)

Well, I've had quite a few people reach out to me from various states wanting to start a futures branch, you know, whether it's the Northeast or the Midwest or the Southeast or, you know, even in Texas, what Trent's doing, it's still, I think, a little bit smaller than what he wants it to be. But I think he's doing it the right way. think starting small and kind of getting, again, the right clubs involved and then expanding from there is the right way to do it. So again, the whole idea is to make this a true national championship. Again,

Shawn Stringham (32:34.444)

Mm-hmm.

Dustin Litvak (32:48.58)

J.O.'s is fantastic. It's a phenomenal event. It's a huge undertaking. I love attending it. know, and, you know, they do the best they can with the seating, but it's as we know, a lot of it is based off the results from the previous year within your zone. And then, you know, how you did at J.O. Qualls. So it's not perfect, which is why they, you know, incorporated the back door, et cetera, et cetera. So like the vision again is like how to make this a true national championship where there are leagues happening all over the country. And then that kind of feeds into your seed.

in the super finals. you know, and then I've actually had also people reach out to me from other countries to see how they can, you know, sort of get involved. And that's a little bit trickier. we have had a lot of Canadian teams want to be involved. so, but even from, from Europe too. you know, trying to, trying to think, how that works, because I think that would only provide just an incredible experience for our athletes as well. But a lot of, you know, a lot of challenges with that.

Shawn Stringham (33:46.4)

lot of challenges. Wow, that's crazy to think about. it's going to be worldwide in 10 years. I bet if there's anyone who could do it, it's for you for sure. what? Okay, cool. the the is the do you have a specific memory of one of your top games you've ever watched at super finals? Like the one like one that's really stuck out to you?

Dustin Litvak (33:51.328)

I don't know about that. We'll see. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (34:14.018)

Wow, I'd have to really think about that. I mean...

I was not prepared for that. I should have been. Yeah, I don't know. mean, there's there's been so many good ones. Again, a lot of great memories of just the first ever women's games in Salt Lake. That was awesome. And just to also see how many college coaches showed up, how many women's college coaches showed up for that, because it was unproven at that point. You know, we were unproven on the women's side. And I think obviously the top clubs are coming and that's the driving force. But

Shawn Stringham (34:21.046)

Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (34:29.676)

Right.

Shawn Stringham (34:37.918)

Right. Right. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (34:47.012)

You know, and I mean, even just like, you know, this past year with with, you know, Beast Boys in Newport and the final of 18 boys. And I mean, there's been so many so many great games. were incredible slate, I think, of finals from 12 you all the way through. They were really exciting.

Shawn Stringham (34:54.177)

Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (35:03.628)

Cool. Cool. All right. We'll pause right there. Good work. That was a great segment. Thank you. Fun stuff. Worldwide, that's crazy. We'll see.

Dustin Litvak (35:14.574)

We'll see. mean, yeah, mean, Bupa is also like trying to, you know, this, this water pole experience cup coming up, you know, with that. So like, that's a really cool thing. and so I think Bupa they've done their next generation cup in Spain, which Grinch goes to, they're trying to do something, you know, here, but I don't know the timing of it is the tricky part. You know, like you can't do it in September, you know, and then what works for the club teams there. So like, apparently this January window works.

Shawn Stringham (35:21.45)

Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (35:39.5)

All right.

Dustin Litvak (35:44.324)

Steve's making it work.

Shawn Stringham (35:45.132)

Yeah, cool. Chloe, everything good?

Good. Next segment we're looking at is talking about Princeton. wanted to be, is there anything you don't want to talk about with Princeton or questions that you want me to avoid or that you need to be from a compliance standpoint and have to be careful about?

Dustin Litvak (36:07.28)

I mean, can let you know if that comes up, but I don't think it'll be a problem. I can't talk about athletes of a certain age, but I don't think that will come up.

Shawn Stringham (36:14.859)

Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So this is mostly kind of like talking about recruiting and

stuff. All right, should be good. Good on your side, Chloe. We reset.

Dustin Litvak (36:25.004)

Yeah, yeah, shouldn't be an issue.

Shawn Stringham (36:35.765)

We're gonna, and we're probably gonna phase it. I have four segments written up into it, also I'll probably go a little bit longer on this one as my guess.

Shawn Stringham (36:48.49)

Okay. Sounds good. Okay. So Dusty, obviously you coach at Princeton and Princeton is one of the world's elite academic institutions in the world. You're doing this while, you know, the seasons, but you're, definitely, you know, we've talked about balancing this in the fall versus the spring. How does, from your perspective, if you put your Princeton hat on, how does Ivy league recruiting differ?

and what are you looking for in water polo athletes? So put your Princeton coach hat on for a second and teach the athletes, like what are the things that you're looking for in a recruiting process?

Dustin Litvak (37:27.684)

so, you know, clearly the academic piece is non-negotiable. you know, when you're talking about an Ivy league institution, you know, there are admission standards. so, the student athlete has to be someone who's very, you know, serious about their studies and very invested in getting, you know, really good grades and test scores and, just really loves to learn, you know, it can't be a check the box kind of, person. so that, that piece, you know,

You kind of have to start with that because if they're not admissible, then we're our time. And not just have to go to class, but you have to want to go to class. I think that's one thing that's really cool about Princeton is like the professors love to teach. So if you love to learn, like this is an amazing place. And kind of going back to what your question was, I think it's similar. Like I love to coach. So if you love to be coached, if you really like to get better and you want to see what you can do within our program, then

Shawn Stringham (37:56.62)

You have to go to class. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly.

Shawn Stringham (38:09.535)

Right. Right.

Dustin Litvak (38:24.472)

you'll thrive. But if you come in thinking you're a finished product and, you know, here's what I am and let me show everybody who I am and what I've got might not go as well. So clearly we want talented athletes who are confident and, you know, want to come in, you know, with some belief in what they have, but also, you know, with the mindset of like, I could get a lot better. I can learn a lot. You know, this is, we're just scratching the surface here. And so

you know, it's got to be, we typically recruit student athletes who want to be the best at everything, or at least the best they can be at everything, and really strive for greatness. And as I said before, aren't like looking for shortcuts or asking kind of like, what's the easier path or what's kind of the minimum I need to do to get this, but more so like, you know, trying to reach their fullest potential. You know, and I think, again, like,

Shawn Stringham (38:59.071)

Right. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (39:22.134)

who you are in the classroom is who you are in the pool is who you are outside, you know, and that's we really try to get to know these student athletes and talk to their coaches. And I even like to talk to opposing coaches to see their thoughts, you know, on the on the certain athletes as we go through the process. So overall, again, just that like open mind and work ethic and desire to grow and get better. you know, colleges.

that unique four to five year window where you have every opportunity imaginable to kind of expand and figure out who you are and maybe even change some things about yourself if you're open to it. And so, you know, I think to go back to your question, like people that really like want that, that are excited by that.

Shawn Stringham (40:08.555)

All right. I can't, I can't, I can only imagine that like if an athlete's academically qualified to get into Princeton and they're coming to play water polo in my mind, I would think that they're just a joy to coach because they want to be excellent. Right? Like you're, you're probably not have to drag them out to practice because they were all, I mean, they've all qualified to get into Princeton.

Dustin Litvak (40:33.008)

Look, there are a lot of benefits about coaching here, one of them being how bright these individuals are. And typically when you're when you're, you know, trying to go over maybe a new tactic or, whatever it may be, they pick things up really quickly and they're really like intuitive and intelligent. So that piece, you know, I think is a benefit for sure. On the flip side, you know, these are highly competitive, elite people who don't like failing, who don't like slipping.

Shawn Stringham (40:37.609)

Right, right.

Shawn Stringham (40:59.05)

Right. Right.

Dustin Litvak (41:00.6)

You know, and so like that can there can be challenges with that too, you know, and and I am very honest through the recruiting process with all the student athletes that we speak with that, you know, like this place isn't easy. You know, the professors here are going to challenge you. And when you graduate from Princeton, you are going to know that you can do anything, not you can just get your foot in the door at this company or a corporation or wherever you want to work. But you're going to move up faster. And there's a reason that Princeton is rated number one.

Shawn Stringham (41:19.637)

Right.

Dustin Litvak (41:27.702)

and LinkedIn and Forbes and all these magazines for return on investment and income, you know, five, 10 years out. Because I think anywhere you can make connections to get to get your foot in the door to to, know, but what do you do with that opportunity? And it's the same thing when you get to Princeton. You got into Princeton. Great. What are you going to do with that? You know, because that is an incredible opportunity that you don't want to waste. And so, yeah.

Shawn Stringham (41:50.026)

Right. And how do you, how do you balance? mean, from a water polo play standpoint, you're perennially in going to the national championships. Like you're qualifying that you've, you've been there. where from a coaching perspective, obviously that's good, but then you have these high function individuals. How long. I mean, you want to probably from a coaching perspective, you're going to say next year, how long before a team outside of the top four wins that national championship?

Dustin Litvak (42:18.934)

Yeah, I mean, it's happened before, right? It's been a while, but it's happened before. And I think in some ways it's becoming even more challenging with the new rules. I think that there was a window there where it was probably a little more feasible and certain schools have certain advantages that we're never going to have in the Ivy League. this is not me disagreeing with the way Ivy League does things. I actually agree with most of the restrictions that we have.

Shawn Stringham (42:43.519)

Right.

Dustin Litvak (42:48.036)

the way it creates opportunities for these students to be students, to be college kids, get to do everything else their peers get to do. But again, with unlimited scholarships and the transfer portal and grad students and all the things that we don't have access to that are becoming more more viable for these other programs, it's gonna become harder, I think, just the way it is.

My hope though is that it happens sooner rather than later because I think it's good for the sport. And there are a lot of teams knocking on the door.

Shawn Stringham (43:22.687)

Right. Yeah. And how do you, how do you balance from a recruiting standpoint, East coast kids, West coast kids, and maybe even like internationals, right? Like coming in as if you put your head coach cap on for a little while of trying to build that team. I mean, you, you've got a product to sell. How do you, how do you manage the kind of the geography across the country, across the world of trying to get athletes to at Princeton?

Dustin Litvak (43:48.822)

Yeah, I mean, ultimately to me, it doesn't matter where you live. I don't care where you were born, where you live. know, again, are you making the most of your opportunities? Our roster has had plenty of guys, of course, from California, plenty of East Coast guys and also a lot of Europeans. So, you know, and South Africans, you know, and so it doesn't matter again. For us, it's about the right people and the right people are all over the world.

And again, are you maximizing the opportunities that are there for you? And do we feel like you're going to be a good fit for the program, both in the pool, but also the university itself?

Shawn Stringham (44:26.431)

Right. how do you, again, as a coach, how do you qualify that as the right person, right? Like you're looking for position, but you're probably meeting and communicating with them and with their parents of like, what does an athlete have to do to get that vaunted call from Dusty, like, hey, come to New Jersey.

Dustin Litvak (44:45.028)

It was a lot of conversations. I'm not a coach that works very fast and that can be frustrating, I think, for some athletes, especially in this day and age where people are committing earlier and earlier. But I try to be as careful as possible because, again, these are people who are joining our family and are going to be influencing our culture. And so I don't think I can decide when someone is a sophomore in high school.

Shawn Stringham (44:54.613)

Yeah.

Shawn Stringham (45:02.603)

Mm-hmm.

Dustin Litvak (45:10.914)

you know, just because of their talent, that that is going to be the right fit for Princeton because the right fit for Princeton is not the right fit for other universities and vice versa. So I like to take my time and talk to, again, the coaches of that individual, also opposing coaches and just, you know, try to try to meet with that athlete or their parents as much as possible to get as much information as we can. And and then ultimately, too, we know that nobody's perfect and people are always going to come, you know, come in and it may not be.

Shawn Stringham (45:18.101)

Right.

Dustin Litvak (45:39.076)

perfect fit right away, but I feel like our alums and our seniors every year and our captains do an incredible job with our culture and just an incredible job of like making sure that, you know, if you are kind of one way the other when you come in, if you can go either way, that you're gonna go the right way or you're gonna lead the team. And that part is huge. It really is.

Shawn Stringham (45:59.148)

And you've mentioned culture a couple of times. What are some of the things that you're looking at, non-playing attributes that fit into the culture? And what is the culture of Princeton Waterpillar?

Dustin Litvak (46:11.716)

Um, you know a couple things that I think I've said already is number one you have to want to compete like our practices are Short, we don't have three four our practices for the most part, know Maybe on a weekend here or there but for the most part again We're managing a really tough academic rigor And so our practices are typically two hours long and that's it That's kind of short to be honest with you for college programs when you talk to a lot of coaches across the country But they're very efficient. They're very well thought out and

Shawn Stringham (46:19.275)

Right. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (46:41.496)

We compete and so you have to be someone who loves to compete all the time. You know, and again, you have to be someone who wants to get better and is open minded, like I said before. Someone who wants to make people around them better. We've had a lot of success, to be honest with you, taking like, quote unquote, the second best player at a certain top program because they're used to being a facilitator. They're not used to living in the spotlight and thinking that

Shawn Stringham (47:01.629)

Right. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (47:09.602)

You know, they have to have the ball in their hands all the time or they have to, you know, get, get the attention, because they haven't had that. They pretty much living their high school and club careers, making those around them better at the same time, improving immensely and then becoming standout players here. So, you know, of course we're still going after the top players, but sometimes we don't, sometimes we don't get them, you know, some, and we've had, I think a tremendous amount of success of just buy-in. mean, you just look at our, our stats this year.

We had nine players finish in double digits and scoring five over 50 goals. You know, it's not like you have a guy with a hundred goals and then everybody else is at 40. You know, the guy who we had a guy, JP will just break our assist all time assists record, you know, over his four years here. So that's, you know, what we're looking for is again, people that really understand the system is about making everybody around them better. And at the same time you become better.

Shawn Stringham (47:45.045)

That's crazy.

Shawn Stringham (48:05.011)

Right. And this links right into this with this following question and kind of linking together the futures part and the Princeton coaching. Give me an example of a futures athlete who you identified and has become a Princeton success story. Can you think of anyone?

Dustin Litvak (48:22.018)

Yeah, there are a ton. Again, I'm going to probably suffer a little bit from recency bias here. But recently, someone like Gavin Appledore or Taylor Bell are huge. I think these are not unknowns. People knew who they were. But again, Gavin was on a team with Peter Castillo and Ben Lathy and other guys, Moe Kenny before him, et cetera, et cetera.

Shawn Stringham (48:28.564)

Right.

Shawn Stringham (48:41.331)

Right. Right.

Dustin Litvak (48:51.374)

you know, think about who Taylor played with, Ryder Dodd and, you know, Will Schneider and those guys. so like, you know, they weren't always like front and center. but clearly both play for incredible programs and really good coaches and, or surrounded by, you know, highly competitive athletes who were very talented and they got better through that. And, and I can't say that I was the only one who identified them, but I was definitely on them early.

Shawn Stringham (49:18.667)

Cool. Great segment. All right, cool. Let's take another quick break and then we'll do the future of water polo coming in right after this. boy. Everything good, Chloe? Dusty's got to catch up on some text messages real quick.

Dustin Litvak (49:26.497)

boy.

Dustin Litvak (49:35.086)

Just to my wife, Roku.

Shawn Stringham (49:39.177)

Are you running? Yeah. Another short segment. Are you running out of time, Dusty? Are we okay? Okay.

Dustin Litvak (49:44.177)

I think I'm fine. She was asking if we're done recording yet. said no.

Shawn Stringham (49:47.627)

Fair enough. All right. Do you know on this timer, Chloe, if I can reset it without it running out? Just hold it? No. Got it. Yep. Thanks.

All right, so Dusty, as we kind of move into this last section, obviously we've talked at, you've built futures into a recruiting pipeline and a really excellent league. Princeton is an ongoing NCAA contender. In your mind, where is club water polo headed and what do we need to do as a sport to keep it growing and get people, athletes involved, get them interested and want to participate in the sport of water polo?

Dustin Litvak (50:36.484)

Big question. I don't think I have all the answers. You know, I think I have ideas, you know, and I think, you know, the sport obviously has been extremely good to me and a lot of people. And I think everybody that's benefited from it, you know, needs to continue to give back to ensure, you know, it's it's not just continues, but like you said, it thrives and continues to grow. And I think exposure is a critical piece for that. You know, it has to be out there. It has to be visible. mean, there are people still in states.

in this country who have never heard of water polo, you know, never played. it's definitely, you know, in Olympic years, it's a little more accessible, but it needs to be more accessible year round. So that's a big piece of it is just trying to get it out there. And again, just trying to create, you know, show the people. I think that's a big piece of it. When you think about some of these other niche sports that have grown, you know, it's learning more about the people that are involved in it and just kind of their stories. I think that's a big piece of it.

You know, club water pol is interesting because I do think that it is growing, at least in California, it seems to be in Texas and in other states. You know, more and more clubs seem to be forming is more better. I don't know, you know, because again, they go back to the kind of we spoke about earlier with with the league itself. It's like you have to maintain the quality at the same time you're growing the quantity. So I think a big piece is both coach and referee development and education.

You know, and I think that's something that I can't speak, I suppose, as educated on the, referee side. but on the coach side, I think, it's, it's a little bit, you know, tough for me to think that in order to become a water polo coach, you need to pass a background check and get a whistle. And that's about it. you know, and in other countries, that's not how this works. I mean, there is a certification program.

Shawn Stringham (52:23.274)

That's it. That is it.

Dustin Litvak (52:30.466)

that has to do with the rules of the sport and development of the sport and how you teach it. And that's easier to manage, of course, in smaller countries where there's far fewer clubs and fewer coaches and athletes. But it's very important, you know, just as much as we wouldn't put, you know, anybody in a classroom that, you know, to teach any subject that they have no experience or no knowledge of or no, you know, accreditation for. I don't think we should do that on the pool deck. And I think, you know, how we think about that is really, really important, because as the sport is growing,

Again, we have to make sure that the quality is maintained. You know, it's one of those things where clubs are also businesses, you know, and that's not a bad thing. I get that. You know, that's where we're at. But when that does happen, it also means sometimes that, you know, what is in the best interest of the athletes isn't always what's happening. You know, a typical model, for example,

Shawn Stringham (53:11.796)

Right.

Dustin Litvak (53:30.616)

you know, in a lot of European countries is, you know, some top players developing in a maybe a lesser known club or a smaller club. Well, as soon as that player gets identified by a national team, they're going to move to a top club being coached by the and everybody's in agreement. You know, there may be some pushback here or there, but for the most part, everybody's in agreement because that's what's best, not just for that athlete, but for the country. you know, and that's, we're not there and I don't know how, if we could get there.

But again, there's just a lot of, I think, push and pull on different athletes in terms of where they should be playing, where they are playing. And in some ways, do think that having a rating system for clubs would be helpful. But that's tough to do when these are businesses.

Shawn Stringham (54:18.184)

Right. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Well, I mean, that kind of goes back to the divisions, but I think a follow-up question in my mind, like the kind of thinking about what's best for the athlete is like, put your college coach hat on, put your commissioner hat on, right? put your expansion, right? You want to do, you want to do clubs, you want to do potential leagues outside of the, some of these hotspot areas. What do, what do club coaches need to focus on in your opinion for athlete development for them to be able to grow, get better?

and be noticed, for lack of better word, right? What are the things that a club coach needs to be focused on with those individual athletes? What's best for the athlete?

Dustin Litvak (55:01.868)

Yeah, mean, fundamentals is what's going to come down to. I mean, you want to be able to have this athlete plug and play in any program. And so the basic fundamentals, I think that, you know, when we think about like American Waterpool over the years and our national teams, like one thing we're always known for is is our speed in our counterattack. and so but not as much. Maybe it's definitely improving. There's no question, but not as much as the vertical game, you know. And so.

Shawn Stringham (55:09.034)

Mm-hmm.

Shawn Stringham (55:20.542)

Yeah. Right.

Dustin Litvak (55:29.314)

I think that, you know, it's just the mindset that a lot of American coaches have had over the years of like, we're going to swim and we're going to swim a lot and we're going to swim hard, you know, and we're going to be, but in certain ways it's just too much swimming and it's not enough skill work and it's not enough development of, know, just how to use your legs properly and, the balance of the water and, know, just various movements that are so important, that affect awareness and communication and how you play this game and how you're able to put your body into position to.

do multiple things, or react at a moment's notice, and that's hard to teach in the water. And I think we lose a lot of that time because we spend a lot of time swimming. And it's not to say that swimming isn't important, of course, you have to do it. But I don't think that basketball coaches are spending an hour of their two hour practice running, or football coaches, or even soccer coaches, to that matter.

Shawn Stringham (56:22.664)

Running, Right.

Dustin Litvak (56:27.7)

they're playing 45 and a half. So I would tend to think they're not doing that. So the more time we spent with the ball or just spend on basic fundamentals and that sort of thing, again, it's not just good for those teams, but that means those athletes are going to be able to go to any program and have a good chance at succeeding.

Shawn Stringham (56:48.116)

Yeah. Think about the sport in itself. Like go backwards five years and to where we are now. Like the sport has grown and developed and changed, right? There's been some positive things that have come out of it. But then also future forecast. If we do this right as a community, coaches, athletes, teams, clubs, et cetera, what from your seat, which is a unique perspective, what looks different five years from now?

eight years from now. If we do things that are good, what are some of the changes of the sport you would hope to see?

Dustin Litvak (57:23.256)

I think more collaboration for sure. I think just more getting everybody on the same page as far as like what is the objective, you know, and how do we achieve that? Because there's just a lot of ulterior motives, you know, and, you know, you know, I think there's a lot of people in our sport that are really intelligent that have phenomenal ideas. And so just getting them in the right places and then giving, you know, opportunity for, you know, some of these things to come to fruition. I think that

Shawn Stringham (57:32.266)

Mm-hmm.

Shawn Stringham (57:36.83)

Mm-hmm.

Dustin Litvak (57:52.812)

A lot of people are kind of discouraged that things aren't going to change, that this is just the way it is. And so you just kind of make it work. But I think, again, if we're not all on the same page as far as what the goal is and what we're trying to get to, and if that is winning gold medals at the national level, whether senior team, junior team, youth on down, if we're not on the same page as far as what we're trying to accomplish, if it's growth of sport, whatever it is,

Shawn Stringham (57:57.438)

Mm-hmm.

Dustin Litvak (58:22.116)

If everybody's got their own ideas, then it's not going to work. I I don't know how you can do this. We're too small of a sport. There has to be collaboration. And again, I think there are a lot of really passionate, really smart people in our sport. And I think there's opportunity to bring together. But again, I think this involves not just coaches. And I think it has to involve referees too. think...

Shawn Stringham (58:47.366)

I was gonna ask that,

Dustin Litvak (58:49.976)

You know, and athletes do and administrators, but, I think one of the misses that, I've seen is just the lack of collaboration between coaches and referees, you know, and that the fact that they only see each other on the pool deck and that's it, and they're not interacting as people, that doesn't work, you know, and there are a lot of officials that have really good ideas about how to make the sport better or how to grow it. you know, and so how, how do we create these opportunities to have these conversations?

And again, come together. So we're all on the same page and we're all invested in this. We all want to see it grow as big as possible and become a national sport and be on TV and be a sport that people in every state are thinking about playing. And there are challenges, of course, with pool availability and the money involved and things like that. But there are also solutions that a lot of people that, I don't know.

And maybe that's also the National League piece of this as well, trying to establish a paid National League within the states. I think that could be very beneficial.

Shawn Stringham (01:00:02.187)

I want you, as we're wrapping up and closing here, want you to think about kind of your core message about the sport because I think it's very insightful. What do you want from the next generation of club water polo leaders? How do we accomplish that? How do we come together? How do coaches and referees communicate? And how do we set a general agenda as a community?

Dustin Litvak (01:00:28.1)

I mean, again, I think you start with like your purpose. You know, what is our mission? What is our purpose? What are we trying to accomplish? And if we're all on the same page there, then we can kind of build the blocks to get there. But if we can't all agree on what the goal is, you know, then it's going to be a challenge. So that is the first piece of it in my mind is, you know, bringing together the vision of where we're trying to go and what this looks like.

Shawn Stringham (01:00:31.551)

Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (01:00:55.886)

There are lot of challenges and those don't need to be, you know, complete roadblocks. Like there's always a way to work through the challenges. Every sport has challenges. That's the reality. We may not be seeing them head on because they're not right in front of us. But every single sport has challenges. And, know, a lot of people want to point to the amount of international recruiting in college water polo is one of the biggest, you know, deterrence. And obviously I recruit internationally. make, you know, I don't, I don't hide that whatsoever.

okay. So, so what's the solution? You know, how do we make, you know, athletes here more attractive than the athletes, you know, that are being recruited from overseas? Because I don't think anybody's just taking a kid because they're from Hungary. And that's the only reason, you know, there's a reason they're taking these players or I'm taking these players. so how do we create these opportunities for these American athletes who are extremely talented to get the same kind of, opportunities, you know, an exposure, a play against adults.

on a consistent basis and grow and let's find that path, not complain about something that's happening, but more so like, okay, well, what can we do to make it better here?

Shawn Stringham (01:02:10.324)

Right, Great stuff. Dusty, thanks so much for being on the podcast. It's been fantastic to have you. I love, I love, love what you've done with Futures and so grateful that you've had Game Online Studio be a part of that and hope that we can continue to work together for years to come is my goal. So thank you so much.

Dustin Litvak (01:02:30.504)

Thank you, Sean. We appreciate again, all the coverage and everything you've done for the league and for the sport. it's been just as exciting to watch your company grow and see all the... I'm learning about other sports now that I didn't know anything about. So hopefully you're bringing some of those...

Shawn Stringham (01:02:43.85)

You want to learn about rugby and hockey and some of those other good stuff out there? There's some very cool things out there. We can bring them in. Some of those rugby guys, oof, teach those guys to swim. They know how to muscle some people around. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Cool. All right, thanks, Dusty.

Dustin Litvak (01:02:51.618)

and you can bring them into water polo. It can work both directions.

Dustin Litvak (01:03:00.9)

Go to New Zealand. They play both. It's pretty fun. Yeah

Thank you.

Shawn Stringham (01:03:08.434)

All right, cool. I'll stay on. And do want me to do the closing first, Chloe?

Dustin Litvak (01:03:10.552)

No, to stay on.

Shawn Stringham (01:03:21.386)

Yeah, I'm ready.

Turn it down just a little bit, a little hot. She's trying to get me to be more energetic, Dusty. So she's trying to have me match the hype of the music as we go into this. And I did want to say, I should have said this while we were recording, but we're really looking forward to doing a lot more storytelling this year. We're building that into the people on site and on deck as part of one of the, requirements, but things that we're talking about. So some fun stuff happened in there.

All right, Chloe, here we go. Energy, give it. No, that's too, yeah, that's gonna throw me off.

Dustin Litvak (01:04:02.603)

Sing along.

Shawn Stringham (01:04:03.722)

Just sing along, here we go. Summer 2021, Dusty Litvak took a chance on goals when we'd barely proven ourselves. By 2022, he trusted us with every futures game, hundreds of matches, thousands of athletes, unprecedented visibility for club water polo. The decision changed our trajectory, but more importantly, it changed what's possible for athletes. Because Dusty doesn't just run the best club league in America, he's built a system, competitive balance,

that develops players, championship atmosphere that prepares them for college, visibility that creates recruiting opportunities, and he does it all from New Jersey while coaching Princeton to NCAA tournaments. That's what a goals legend looks like, someone who sees the potential before anyone else, someone who builds infrastructure that elevates everyone, someone who believes in visibility because they know it means for an athlete's future. Dusty, thank you for trusting us in 2021.

Thank you for building the futures into a model for club water polo. And thank you for showing us that with the right structure, the right competition and the right visibility, club water polo can be world-class. The athletes who've been seen because of you believed in streaming and they're the real winners here. This has been the Extra Pass Pod presented by Game On Live Studio. If you're a club coach or parent trying to understand how to navigate elite competition and recruiting, share this episode.

This is the Blueprint. Next week, another Goals legend who's built something extraordinary. I'm Shawn Stringham. Stay in the game.

Shawn Stringham (01:05:44.308)

Better? Intro, even more hype. Even more hype. I can hear it in your voice, Chloe, wanting more hype.

Shawn Stringham (01:05:56.98)

play the music, you just turn it down just a little bit. was just, it was just, it was just peaking, so I couldn't.

Shawn Stringham (01:06:06.57)

I'm sure that would be fantastic. Summer 2021, Goles has just finished streaming the Eggbeater Challenge with Mark St. John. We were unproven, scrappy, and still figuring it out. Dusty Litvak was bringing supervinyls to Salt Lake City, the most competitive club championship in water polo, and he needed streaming coverage. He could have gone with anyone. He chose us. By 2022,

Dusty didn't just trust us with the tournament, he trusted us with everything, every Futures League game. 16U and 18U, boys and girls, SoCal and NorCal, hundreds of matches, thousands of athletes. That decision changed goals, but more importantly, it changed what's possible for club water polo athletes. Because Dusty Litvak doesn't just run the nation's best club league, he coaches Princeton to NCAA tournaments.

From New Jersey, managing California water polo from 3,000 miles away, this is Dusty Litvak, the goals legend who saw the vision before anyone else and the coach who's building the future of water polo one athlete at a time.

Shawn Stringham (01:07:16.078)

good. See? Hype. Now he's just going to sit here and laugh at me. Thanks, Dusty. You need a hype guy? There you go. can I record the last paragraph, again, Chloe and add the go be great on there? I forgot to put that. Thank you. The outro. Yeah.

Dustin Litvak (01:07:20.672)

No, no, I need a hype person. That's what I'm thinking.

Shawn Stringham (01:07:41.704)

Myrica. All right, let's hear that out. Let the Utah came out, come out. A couple three.

yes. Why not? I went too far.

That was hard.

Shawn Stringham (01:08:01.61)

will be great game on. Alright one more time on the outro thanks for your patience that's that's the bio I way too

Shawn Stringham (01:08:35.465)

All right, cue me up. I'm ready.

Shawn Stringham (01:08:40.169)

Summer 2021, Dusty Litvak took a chance on goals. Summer 2021, Dusty Litvak took a chance on goals when we'd barely proven ourselves. By 2022, he trusted us with every futures game, hundreds of matches, thousands of athletes, unprecedented visibility for club water polo. That decision changed our trajectory, but more importantly, it changed what's possible for athletes. Because Dusty doesn't just run the best club league in America, he's built a system.

competitive balance that develops players, championship atmospheres that just prepares them for college, visibility that creates recruiting opportunities, and he does it all from New Jersey while coaching Princeton to NCAA tournaments. That's what a Goals legend looks like, someone who sees the potential before anyone else, someone who builds infrastructure that elevates everyone, someone who believes in visibility because they know what it means for an athlete's future.

Dusty, thank you for trusting us in 2021. Thank you for building futures into the model for Club Waterpolo. And thank you for showing that with the right structure, the right competition and the right visibility, Club Waterpolo can be world-class. The athletes who've been seen because you believed in streaming, they're the real winners here. This has been the Extra Pass podcast presented by Game On Live Studio. If you're a club coach or parent trying to understand how to navigate,

this elite competition and recruiting, share this episode. This is the blue planet. Next week, another Goals legend who's built something extraordinary. I'm Sean Stringham, say in the game, go be great, game on.

Shawn Stringham (01:10:26.404)

I lost my ears halfway through that, my battery died, so I hope everything was okay with that.

Dustin Litvak is a respected water polo leader, coach, and innovator who has played a key role in shaping the modern landscape of the sport. Deeply involved in the growth and evolution of the GOLS league, Dustin brings a forward-thinking mindset focused on visibility, competitive balance, and long-term development.

Through his leadership, the league has expanded significantly, overcoming major challenges during the pandemic and reaching pivotal milestones such as the Super Finals in Salt Lake City and the introduction of the first women’s Super Finals. These moments reflect Dustin’s commitment to inclusion, progress, and elevating the overall quality of competition.

As a coach at Princeton, Dustin offers a unique perspective on athlete development within the Ivy League, where academic excellence is valued alongside athletic performance. He strongly believes that high-quality coaching and officiating are essential to preparing athletes for success at the next level.

As a guest on The Extra Pass Podcast, Dustin shares insights on the role of technology in recruitment, the importance of collaboration among coaches, referees, and athletes, and why community engagement and visibility are critical to the future of water polo. At his core, he is driven by the belief that the sport grows strongest when everyone works together.